Transcript:
Peter Crosby:
Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.
Peter Crosby:
Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Zach Rubin, Director of e-Commerce and Marketplace at Premium Kitchen Appliance Manufacturer Zephyr has been on a three-year journey to build out their digital strategy. With a broad array of responsibilities and a very small team, zephyr has managed to make their digital shelves gleam and earn the premium that their products deserve. A superpower Zach brings to his role is digital retailer experience as a Category Manager at Wayfair. Zach joined Lauren Livak and made to share insights from both sides of the digital shelf equation. So Zach, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on the podcast today. I've been so looking forward to this discussion.
Zach Rubin:
Thank you, Peter, and thank you Lauren for having me on the podcast today.
Peter Crosby:
Now, just for the context for our audience, you're at a mid-size kitchen appliance company, Zephyr, specializing in premium range hoods and wine and beverage coolers. Did I get that right?
Zach Rubin:
You did get that right.
Peter Crosby:
And your site, A, is beautiful and B, everyone should go there. I mean, it's the kinds of range hoods that I, because we're going to redo our kitchen and I'm... now, thank you. You've made me desire a Zephyr, so-
Zach Rubin:
Perfect.
Peter Crosby:
...I'll keep you posted. So, now in the past few years, you really have helped Zephyr shape and implement a digital strategy, and you've been building the team and the process to be able to support that. And it's really have been a fascinating journey, particularly because premium product, a mid-size company like you want to punch above your way to a certain degree and also as a big sort of brand and performance marketing component. So, I'd love you just to tell us about your journey at Zephyr, sort of how it started, and what that's been like to get you to the point you're at now.
Zach Rubin:
Absolutely. Thank you again. So, I think our story starts, as we all know, when COVID hit in March of 2020, kind of through our retail world into question. Prior to COVID, there was a strong omnichannel effort to connect both the online and offline experiences and ultimately to give consumers the same sentiment about brands and products regardless of where those products were purchased. However, when COVID hit and storefronts were closed and traditional ways of doing business had changed, our team was ultimately left with the question of does our current online presence on marketplaces and on other sites accurately represent who our brand is, what products we offer and the value behind those products? So, ultimately what we did is we decided to bring these channels in the house, and that was kind of the start to the digital team here at Zephyr.
I like to personally use the analogy of a wheel. So, think about digital almost as the hub on the wheel, kind of the center point. And there are a lot of cross-functional teams that we work with day in and day out, and those are the spokes of the wheel, for lack of a better word. So, these key stakeholders that ultimately will help support our team and help us get the wheels in motion, that type of thing can't necessarily happen until you're having those discussions, until you're aligning all areas of the business to make sure that as a new team is being formed in a new channel of business internally need to make sure that we have the support along the way there.
So, ultimately, that led us to our first line of action which was how do we take a lot of the traditional information that's lived in our point of sales systems and a lot of our traditional data systems, how do we transition that into a light that will help us to support data governance, marketplace expansion. But it's really been a full team effort. It's really been that wheel that's been in motion the entire time, making sure that all of those key stakeholders along the way are supporting that growth, but also getting an understanding of the processes along the way.
So, for Zephyr, specifically, we've been in business over 25 years providing ventilation solutions to customers. We have the motto with our clean air and smart design. Zephyr's been able to ultimately expand from the origin story of ventilation in 1997 to refrigeration products in 2018. And now what's really exciting is as we look towards 2023, there's even more opportunities and categories to expand our assortment as the business continues to grow. Rewinding a little bit in September of 2021, we brought on board Sadie as our e-commerce specialist. She's in charge of managing new product content,, updates across retailer platforms, ongoing merchandising enhancements and retailer follow through. Sadie's been really instrumental in helping us to get to where we are today because she has a lot of the institutional knowledge. She's been at Zephyr for four going on five years now, and a lot of the experience she's had in her previous positions have length itself very well to different opportunities within the e-commerce space.
Peter Crosby:
So, that's really interesting, Zach, that, if you don't mind me asking that, where was Sadie in the organization prior to you bringing her over? And did she have digital skills already or were you the sort of a choice between do I educate about the company and the category? Do I educate about digital? How'd that come about?
Zach Rubin:
So, Sadie's at on operations. I used to work with her a lot on EDI and inventory and order processing, but really what it boiled down to was her go-getter attitude. She was looking for the next opportunity to grow her career. She knew about digital penetration increasing as a result of COVID and not really slowing down from there. So, as we think about opportunities for Sadie in her career, it seemed like a natural next step to jump on board with a growing team and the opportunities that digital presents.
Peter Crosby:
Did she know she'd have to work with you? Did that-
Zach Rubin:
Yeah, you know. Yeah, we ultimately told her.
Peter Crosby:
No. I mean, I love your call-out about, because when you're operating a tight team at a mid-size company, you don't have the huge organizational structures of some of the big person and big people. And so, those individuals embody your strategy and your performance. And I love the call-out there because it is really, we know so many companies that are doing it with a small team, and I love the thought of getting somebody from somewhere else in the business and then it was better to do that in a lot of ways than to get a digital expert who comes in and needs to learn where the bathrooms are.
Zach Rubin:
That's true. And what I would add to that, Peter, as well is naturally someone that worked for a company in the pre-COVID age may have a different experience. Going pre-COVID during COVID and now us kind of on the exit out. And what Sadie really provided was the understanding for the way that the company worked, understanding the personnel and the resources and the opportunity that the company had kind of piggybacked with her attitude of there's so much more room for opportunity, it seemed like the right fit, and so far we've hit a home run there.
Peter Crosby:
That's awesome. And how are you expanding your capabilities in the period upcoming?
Zach Rubin:
One of the exciting things that we're thinking about for 2023 is now that we have a suitable foundation for our business where the different areas of investment and opportunities, one being digital media, what's most important to us right now is relevancy for the products in our brand. So, how can we become more relevant across the customer journey at all of those different touchpoints in their buying experience?
Lauren Livak:
And Zach, can I dig out on in one thing you were saying about cross-functional alignment too. I love that you mentioned that because it's so important not only for you and Sadie and your team to be able to know what's happening, but to get everyone else on board. Was that a hard conversation for you to have? Was it an easy conversation? Was it helpful that Sadie knew the business? I'm just curious, as a lot of other companies are trying to get that cross-functional alignment so that they can really get digital into their organizations, any advice you might have?
Zach Rubin:
Absolutely. So, I think what can be challenging sometimes is digital appears as an opportunity, but there are so many moving pieces behind the scenes. Part of it is it's an educational process. It's helping folks understand along the way what are the pieces that are needed to succeed within the space while also on the other hand, me trying to get an understanding for the way that their business has worked thus far. So, it's taking the skillsets that maybe have worked, new requirements that the digital business might need, and having some candid discussions amongst key team members to make sure that we're using resources efficiently in the right ways, making sure that, again, as that wheel is moving, all of those wheels are moving in one continuous direction
Lauren Livak:
And we're all going in the same place. We're all trying to sell products at the end of the day.
Peter Crosby:
Well, and to that point, Lauren, Zach, in this initial foray into digital, what kind of business results have you been seeing?
Zach Rubin:
We've seen great success. I think part of it is just strictly as a result of there was a period of time where the traditional business couldn't function as it had in the past. So, you had a lot of customers during a certain period of time, right? Where they're spending much more time at home, they may be working at home, they may be renovating their home. It landed itself. COVID landed itself to a lot of renovation. And as we start to think about that area of the business and how it continued to stimulate digital growth, I think we've all seen numbers about how COVID advanced us in the digital landscape from a penetration perspective, strictly as a result of all of us we're behind our screens. We couldn't go outside. So, now what's really important as we start to transition out of that period is how do we take the learnings over the COVID period, digitally speaking online, how do we start to parlay that with what's being done at the store level, and how do we make sure as we continue to move forward, we're moving forward in the most sustainable and opportunistic way.
Lauren Livak:
And when you're selling something that's a premium product, like a hood is not a $100, right? It's an investment and it's something that you do research on and you really need to better understand. So, when you're looking at a product page and telling your brand story, how are you differentiating yourselves from competitors, especially if you're maybe not the cheaper option and you're more high end?
Zach Rubin:
It's a really good question, Lauren. For us at Zephyr, we like to think about this a couple of different ways. There are a few really large contributing factors to the purchasing experience, which could be brand recognition, could be the price of the product, maybe it's the inspirational imagery and merchandising, maybe it's customer feedback, what they're reading on product pages in the form of reviews or question and answer, also enhanced content. But arguably, and as a part of the sales process, arguably most important as well is taking care of that customer and making sure that not only is their buying experience frictionless and they have the understanding, but we're also providing exceptional post-sale service. So, for Zephyr as a premium product, it's really important for us to hit home with the brand. Zephyr over the last 25 years has really carved out its niche in the market from a design and air quality perspective.
And it's a little bit different shopping appliances than it would be, let's say, a furniture and decor category where oftentimes in a lot of those brand agnostic categories, customers might be more apt to purchase based off of price or based off of sensory touch, feel, see. But when it comes to an appliance, it's a very branded purchase. And what Zephyr's continue to do is make enhancements to technology and features in their products to get us into an area of the business where we're not as focused on beating the low price point, guys. What we're really focusing right now is how do we continue to build upon the brand recognition, the inspiration behind our products, and ultimately the performance of those products. You also asked how do we look at the product page to be able to distinguish both the brand story when other competitors might be cheaper?
And I think especially online, aesthetically speaking, it sometimes is very difficult to see on the left and the right hand side of a category page of product that looks very similar, but maybe the Zephyr product might be a little bit more expensive. So for us, we always say picture's worth a thousand words, but for us online, it's really the merchandising that helps set us apart. Kind of like what Peter kicked off with, I think oftentimes when we're having conversations with customers or cross-functional partners, the consistent presence of the brand itself and the products that are being presented and the inspiration you see of that specific hood in Peter's future home, it helps us ultimately get folks into the understanding that there's a huge design component behind these products. What we oftentimes find is text to some extent can get us there, but it's a lot easier to see an image and know pretty quickly that, hey, that might look good in my kitchen.
So, brand is most important. I would say price is also important and we'll get back to that a little bit later on, but for us as well, it's brand loyalty, it's customer feedback, it's the cyclical effect that that creates to allow us to build consumer confidence and ultimately create a frictionless experience for our customers as they're shopping for the right solution for their home. Going back to price, I think when it comes to digital, specifically, there can be a very low barrier to entry on a lot of these marketplaces. Sometimes they don't even exist. And for us, we are not looking to play the low price point game. We are focused on design, we're focused on quality, and ultimately providing solutions for our customers based off of the needs in their home.
Lauren Livak:
And Zach, from an incentive perspective, you do some things with gifting and or talking about service level. Can you talk about some of those things that you offer that might be a little different than what you see from just the price on the PDP, but it adds to the value?
Zach Rubin:
Yeah, sure. So, I would say we have a best in class product support department. Oftentimes, an installation piece like a range hood can be complex. Sometimes there are multiple components of that purchase that are needed, and our team does an excellent job of providing those solutions to the customer by qualifying them based off of their needs. In terms of incentivizing customers, we incentivize them to dream big, right? It's the opportunity to have such a stylish piece in your home, something that clearly stands out in your kitchen environment. And oftentimes when someone's walking into a kitchen for the first time, it's not the refrigerator or the oven that they see. It's the beautiful range hood that that's the standout piece within that category.
Peter Crosby:
So Zach, one of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you in addition to the digital program you've running is that you've been on the other side of the negotiation table with your customers. Specifically you were at Wayfair running the minor appliances category. And I'm wondering would Zach, the category manager at Wayfair, like Zach, the supplier partner. And then, what advice would you offer to the brand side of the world?
Zach Rubin:
You know, you really hitting me with the tough questions here. Of course, they would. Of course. No, but in all seriousness, to be fair, there's been far less of a learning curve when it comes to understanding a complex retailer like Wayfair. Amazon's very complex, Wayfair is very complex, and they have a dynamic nature about them that is constantly changing in the environment. Wayfair, unlike some, has very complex levels of logic that drive everything from price, to sort ranking, to geotargeting, and more. But it's been most beneficial to understand what I call the "recipe for success". And the best part about it is even though each retailer has their nuances, it's the same recipe executed in a slightly different way in order to win at each of these retailers.
So, at Zephyr, we have three different elements for that recipe. The first one is a foundational basic. It's basically the first, the starter elements, what you need to do to start on your e-commerce journey. We follow our foundational basics by enablers and ultimately accelerants. And know what I'm about to talk about is not an exhaustive list, but it's a really great jump off point for anyone that's thinking about getting into the space and putting the pieces of the puzzle together to form that whole picture. So, diving a little bit deeper, the first one being the foundational basics, I think about this as the flooring of the home, the roof over your head, the walls of the home, right? You need that in order to live. Within this specific area, foundational basics, we have a full assortment. If you don't have your products on site, right? You can't sell them. So, when we talk about full assortment, we want a hundred percent of all eligible products to be listed online. Competitive pricing, are we being competitive given market conditions and market retails, inspirational merchandising?
Are we giving the customer just silhouette imagery? Are we helping them to imagine this in their home through lifestyle photography? Are we providing them videos? Another one is EDI. So, EDI is a great tool that can be used for streamlining data transfers. It's a really efficient way to take information from your systems and get it into the retailer systems. You can run this on schedules, you can run it once a day, multiple times a day. The best part about it is it's done via schedule and it doesn't have to be sent manually, which a lot of processes still are, believe it or not. We also have reliable inventory, which I think, of course, through COVID. There's a lot of volatility within the supply chain and inventory, but it's really important to be providing accurate inventory feeds and back order information not to overpromise the customer and ultimately under-deliver, realistically setting expectations for that purchase.
We also have dedicated account contact. A strategic partner to essentially work with on growth opportunities. Who is that liaison between your company and the retailer to help you make your mark and ultimately low incidence rate. There's nothing worse in drop ship. When you get a product that you purchased, you've been waiting for it, you're super excited about it and it shows up damaged. Make sure that you continue to invest in different areas to provide structural integrity to your drop ship packages and ultimately providing a happier customer experience along the way. So, those areas really encompass our foundational basics. As we talk about the next bucket enablers, they're really two that come to mind. It's quick shipping, the expectation that customers online want products quickly, and they also want to know the why behind the buy. And this will tie back a little bit to the premium price nature of Zephyr products.
So, for quick shipping, when we think about this, how do we forward position inventory? How do we meet online customers expectations for one to two day shipping? How do we get our products into a network that can reach 98% of the country within one to two days, guaranteed. Also enhanced content. We call it the why behind the buy, but personally I like to call it our own little digital salesperson for the PDP. It's really for us, it's an opportunity to bridge the gap between the experience that customers have in store when they can ask questions and online when they're looking for just a little bit more information to get over the edge before they convert on that product.
We oftentimes find, and I think there are plenty of reports out there that will confirm, one of the main reasons customers continue to leave shopping pages is there's not enough information. So, whether it's an Amazon A+, whether it's a Wayfair Way More, whether it's from the manufacturer, there are a number of ways that you can create experiences through enhanced content to help intent to purchase customers in their buying experience dive one level deeper into product specifics before they ultimately go and convert on that product.
The last bucket that we have is accelerants. This is really once you get through the foundational basics, you have that perfected, you've gone on to the enablers, you've optimized those areas of the business. Accelerants are really how do we put the fuel behind the fire? There are a couple of different ways that we can do this, and at Zephyr we think about this three ways. The first one being promotions. How do we gain additional visibility, potentially funding for endcap space, potentially looking at different opportunities, whether it be mail-in rebates, whether it be gift with purchase. Thinking about creative ways to continue to draw the customer in while maintaining the integrity of the brand and the pricing that goes along with it.
Digital media is another area that we focus on. There are a lot of different opportunities within this area of the business. For us specifically, it's a focus on what are the right campaign strategies across those digital touchpoints, whether it be sponsored products, sponsored keywords, sponsored shops, onsite targeting, offsite targeting, going through Google, PLAs, what are the right elements of the digital media plan to make sure that you are drawing customers in at the right point across that customer journey?
And the last one, of course, is oftentimes with e-commerce customers, I'll use Wayfair as an example. Wayfair is just one of many sites that they have. So, you're looking at the other opportunities that your existing customer presents, whether it be on all modern, whether it be on another website or what it could be is maybe you're only selling domestically here in the US and there may be an opportunity in the Canadian market. Those are some really great accelerant opportunities to bring your business to the next level.
Lauren Livak:
And Zach, we've been talking a lot about the collaboration between brands and retailers and that brands really need to be their retailers' best partner. And you were on both sides and using that framework and the experiences you've had, do you have any advice for brands as they go into 2023 to find ways to better partner with their retailers?
Zach Rubin:
It's a really good question. My firm belief is the key to driving a strategic account involves strategic partners. It may sound overly simplistic, but it's the truth. It may involve leveling up discussions in 2023. It may involve resetting a certain meeting cadence that you have. My philosophy is find a time that works for both parties and stick to it just like you, what you would do in a one-on-one with a direct report. It's your one chance, whether it be weekly, biweekly, monthly, to have that open dialogue to brainstorm opportunities together.
And I'm sure just like us and others, we have a wide range of partners. Some prefer email communication, some prefer weekly calls. What's most important in this is finding a standing time to use as checkpoints so you can collaborate along your growth journey. The other thing I would add is sometimes you might get pushback. My suggestion is reset and try another angle. If you think something's a good idea and you get a hard no, think of alternatives and provide them recommendations. Again, that standing meeting is the jump off point, not only to collaborate, but also to hold everyone accountable and ultimately to develop a plan and execute it together.
Peter Crosby:
We've been talking to some of our guests about the joint business planning process, and some have discussed how they don't often find that there's digital literacy on the other side of the table, and that often brands are in the position of needing to educate and sometimes even search out the digitally knowledgeable people at the retailer that may not necessarily be your partner, but somebody else at the team. Does that sound familiar to you?
Zach Rubin:
Yes.
Peter Crosby:
Do you find yourself often in that role of educator and trying to make all of that break down those silos and get the right thinking in place?
Zach Rubin:
I think I know where you're going with this, which is you tend to find people in the space that are hyper-focused on one area of the business that may understand at a 30,000 foot view of the general landscape, but as soon as you get out of their wheelhouse in terms of a conversation, sometimes that can become whether it be confusing or maybe misinformation. What's really important is you understand who owns which area of the business. We have account contacts that are the day-to-day point of contact for us, and those are the folks that we should continue to be leaning into to make sure that as we need different resources across their businesses, they're pulling in the appropriate folks to help us support those conversations. So, rather than kind of casting a wide net, we prefer to go directly to the source and find the best partner who can work with us on that specific topic.
Peter Crosby:
That's great. When you talked earlier about accelerants and certainly one of the biggest and most rapidly changing areas is retail media, as we mentioned earlier. How are you thinking about retail media as part of your mix and moving forward from here? What does 2023 look like in that area for you?
Zach Rubin:
So another great question, Peter, and I think for us specifically, it's the perfect time to be having this conversation. Sadie and I are a team of two. We've been dedicated-
Peter Crosby:
I love Sadie.
Zach Rubin:
We love Sadie. We've been a dedicated team over the last two years working to perfect our merchandising strategy, working to inspire customers through enhanced content, refining operational processes to meet certain customer needs. As we look towards year three, we know that Zephyr has to be more relevant across those customer touchpoints. We know that Zephyr's a not brand rarely discounts. So, what are the opportunities for us to "pay to play"? We know, first off, that there's a divide in how programs are managed. Certain programs are managed in-house by us at Zephyr, others are outsourced through retailer partners or sometimes even third party partners. The opportunity for us ultimately to participate in retail media can be enormous. And we know there's a lot of strategic planning that goes into it, whether it be determining the budget, the campaign strategy, the resources needed, and so many more elements.
But for us, as we think about 2023, the goal is to become more prominent on the page, to become more relevant as a brand, no matter where that customer is as a part of their journey. And as Zephyr continues to grow as a business, as our team continues to grow, as the product offerings and categories continue to grow, it'll be imperative to overall success that we refine the strategy that'll work best for us to make sure that as customers are looking for those proper ventilation solutions or cooling solutions for their home, they know front and center that Zephyr might be the right brand for them.
Lauren Livak:
And Zach, with a limited budget and a smaller team and wanting to get into retail media, how are you thinking about prioritizing which retailers you should be choosing? Because it's not like you can make up this budget if you don't have it. What is your [inaudible 00:30:28]
Zach Rubin:
It's a good question, Lauren. I think what we quickly realized through a conversation is certain retailers have minimum thresholds to even participate in something like digital media. So, I think first is sizing up the opportunity with each of your customers, whether it's managed by you in-house, if you have the infrastructure or a resource to do that, if that's managed by the retailer themselves, and if it's managed by a third party. What we are finding in conversations is as we build the landscape, we need to have an understanding of what exactly is needed to get our foot through that door to understand the environment, to then work on revising that strategy over time to make sure that whichever campaign strategy or targeting strategy we have, ultimately it's coming back to the appropriate point in that customer's journey. So we again, can be the most relevant brand and ultimately as they start to get into additional dive deeper into product specifics, I'm starting to realize more and more that it's not just picture and price, it really is a solution for your home.
Sometimes customers may not even realize it at first. It may be a style component, as I mentioned before, but what they quickly realized after the fact is they had just been missing out on this for the last two decades, but here's the opportunity, it's here and now, Zephyr's a fabulous company that continues to grow, continues to invest in customers using feedback, using different areas of the business to make sure that as we better understand what customers are looking for and how they're shopping, making sure that Zephyr is there and they have the opportunity not only to shop and browse with us, but also to buy with us.
Peter Crosby:
Well, Zach, I mean when I look across your PDPs and the site, your ability to get a consistent premium feel out there is really impressive, especially when you hear it's two of us. It's the depth and breadth of the work that your team is doing across so many channels and beautifully so that represents, I think it's designed beyond expectations, and that's how I feel about your product pages. And I think, I just want to congratulate you and thank you for bringing your split personality of category manager and head of digital to the podcast, and it's a great perspective. I'm really grateful for you sharing it with us.
Zach Rubin:
Thank you very much for having me.
Peter Crosby:
Thanks to Zach for bringing his dual perspectives to the podcast. Hey, why not head over to digitalshelfinstitute.org and become a member? Keep up to date with everything going on at the DSI. Thanks for being part of our community.
