Transcript:
Peter Crosby:
Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.
Peter Crosby:
Hey, everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. The demand for e-commerce and digital talent at brands is skyrocketing and the great resignation or the great reshuffling is on. Whether you are hiring or looking, this episode is for you.
Peter Crosby:
Lisa Heins took her experience in recruiting roles at Microsoft and Amazon, and eight years ago, founded , a practice focused on recruitment in e-commerce and advertising roles. Particularly, for marketplaces. She brings a wealth of perspective and tips to the DSI audience on how to navigate the current environment to attract the best candidates or find your next career opportunity. Lisa, we are so thrilled to have you on the podcast today to talk about such a hot topic. E-commerce talent.
Lisa Heins:
Yeah.
Peter Crosby:
We hear about the great resignation. I'm thinking of it as, "The great reshuffling," because people are moving all over the place. You are living this every day with your clients. When you sit back and think about what is happening and what you're seeing ... What is the state of the talent market in e-commerce right now?
Lisa Heins:
I would preface anything I say today with the fact that I am focused on a very specific niche. My opinions or thoughts have to do with my exposure to that, which is really what I call marketplaces. Doing business on Amazon, walmart.com, target.com, Instacart. Those marketplaces space. That's really what I focus on. Anything I say today is with that in mind, but we're dealing with some really intense supply and demand issues to begin with in this space.
Lisa Heins:
There just is more need, I would say, for this qualified talent that's out there. I think what's happening is more brands are starting to build their in-house teams. They're figuring out how important this piece really is to their business. I think the pandemic helped them along the way, if they weren't there already. And so, what's happening is you have a lot of brands starting to build their own teams out. Agencies are more and more competitive for the talent.
Lisa Heins:
Everyone wants this talent. I think they're also realizing, especially on the Amazon platform, that having talent who really gets that space makes all the difference in the world. In terms of what you can do with your Amazon business. I just think that hiring someone in that doesn't get Amazon is ... People are realizing it's really a hindrance to their business. They're more and more interested in people who've done that specific skillset.
Peter Crosby:
We know, today, every retailer is becoming an ad platform. There's all these brands doing that. What are you seeing in terms of supply and demand?
Lisa Heins:
I'm seeing it's really tight in what I will call, "Entry-level, but experienced." We're talking even a year. If you've even done Amazon ads for a year, you're super marketable right now. All the way up through probably director or senior director level. Just extremely competitive, tight marketplace. I think also what's going on ... And it's where my business comes into play. It really helps me out, frankly. These candidates are being inundated by recruiters, by companies trying to recruit them.
Lisa Heins:
And so, a lot of them are open to passively looking. They're happy in their jobs, but super curious to take advantage of this hot market. That's where we're working. When they work with me, I can bring them the specific roles that they want, instead of returning calls to 100 recruiters who don't even know what they're looking for. For companies that are trying to hire this talent, it's really challenging, because their recruiters don't get the space. And then, they're also just not understanding it.
Lisa Heins:
There's a lot of passive job seekers out there, but getting to them is really challenging. I haven't seen the great resignation so much in this unique space. What I have seen, I think we'll talk a bit about it later, is a huge shift in how demanding they are. I don't mean that to be demeaning. They're very valuable to the businesses that they support. But I think because, A, they've seen the light a little bit like around remote working and things like that ... Because they've seen the light, and they are in such demand and know it, they're becoming much more particular about the types of things they're looking for in a job environment.
Lisa Heins:
I haven't seen a lot resign. I did see some take a step back to help with childcare, while their kids were home from school. But most of them love this space. It's super exciting. It's constantly changing, so it's really fulfilling. I actually haven't seen a lot of the great resignation in this unique space, which is really good. Because we need way more of these folks than they exist right now.
Lauren Livak:
Lisa, to your point, I'm curious. What are people asking for? What are the demands? What are you seeing?
Peter Crosby:
Don't get any ideas, Lauren. Leave it.
Lisa Heins:
I know. I know. I get in big trouble with my clients when I talk about some of this on LinkedIn. Because they're like, "Don't tell everyone this." But first of all, there is what I have termed, "Compensation inflation," that has gone on in the space. The first thing I would say, especially for people who are building initial teams or just really haven't hired in this space very well is ... What you think you're going to be paying for the role, it's probably not appropriate.
Lisa Heins:
I would say 70% or more of clients who I get on the phone to take a job order from ... When they get to the point of where they think the comp's going to be, I'm advising them, "Hey. That's just not realistic. You're not going to find what you're looking for." I would say roughly, in the last 18 months at least, 20% comp has gone up in this space. I'm not joking.
Lauren Livak:
Wow.
Lisa Heins:
I think that's one of the things that's out there.
Peter Crosby:
I should go into e-commerce. Right?
Lisa Heins:
And then, particularly ... I know. My husband says all the time, "You sound like you know how to do these things. You talk to these people all day long. Can't we just train a bunch of recent grads and get a business set up?"
Peter Crosby:
Set up a business. Yeah.
Lisa Heins:
I think that's the first thing to be prepared for. You are going to have to pay more for this talent. But again, I can't stress enough what I've seen from my clients. Having the talent that actually gets Amazon, in particular, but these other marketplaces ... They can do so much more.
Lisa Heins:
The Amazon flywheel can really be worked and spun up to where your business ... It's going to pay for itself is my point. In my belief. But aside from the compensation, there's a lot of other changes I'm seeing, in terms of what candidates are looking for. They're definitely looking for more time off. People who are offering not super generous time off packages, whether they call it PTO or whatever they call it, that is a deal breaker for a lot of candidates.
Lisa Heins:
They will turn down a great job if the company isn't flexible for them or has some generous time off plan. That to me would be four weeks or more at a minimum. Frankly, a lot of companies are going to some sort of unlimited PTO plan in this space. Think about something like that. In addition to that time off, just more flexibility in work style and hours.
Lisa Heins:
Whether that is just being able to do your work when you want to. Obviously, there's certain times ... I've seen some companies set their meeting times in the middle of the day, so that it works no matter what schedule someone's choosing to work for their lifestyle. But having that flexibility is really important to today's candidate workspace. At least, in this space. And then, I also hear a lot about wanting to make a difference.
Lisa Heins:
A lot of these folks ... I work with primarily management and executive level candidates in this space. They've had great careers. They've been at maybe Amazon a decade or all these great companies. And so, they're looking to fulfill something a little bit different in their next work choice. And so, they want to work for a company that makes a difference. That could be in terms of the actual company and their offering, but if not, it could just be in the values that the company promotes.
Lisa Heins:
Whether that be really encouraging them to volunteer and supporting that financially or with time off. Or just really rallying their employee base to do good things. It could be the product. Some people are like, "I don't want to work for a company that's producing water bottles left and right." A water company or something like that. They really want to work for a company that's making a difference. Sustainability. Anything around sustainability is really hot. Certainly, I see that as well.
Lisa Heins:
And then, the other thing I'm really starting to see a lot more in the last six months is an interest in omnichannel. In the past, it was Amazon, Amazon, Amazon. All the time. I think that these candidates, they want to get enrolled. They're seeing the value of omnichannel. They're seeing that the space is moving more omnichannel. And so, they want opportunities where they can work on marketplaces besides Amazon. That they can do some of these others as well, broaden their portfolio, and be at the cutting-edge as those different platforms are further developing. Those are the main things that I'm seeing.
Peter Crosby:
Right now, I can feel the people in our audience that are open to new opportunities rising up. "I have power." Thinking about it maybe more. Let's flip the viewpoint here. Because I'm feeling like the hiring manager is starting to shrink in their chair. Oh my gosh.
Lisa Heins:
I know. My clients ...
Peter Crosby:
They must be. If you could give me the mindset that an employer or a hiring manager needs to have. What best practices maybe they can use to find and retain their talent?
Lisa Heins:
Finding it, in part, comes to being prepared. As I mentioned, these candidates, they're often quite happy in their current job. Or happy enough. And so, they are going to limit the opportunities that they're looking at externally. And so, they're going to judge you very quickly because of that. First of all, be prepared. These candidates have a lot to choose from.
Lisa Heins:
Like I said, they're making fairly quick decisions on the caliber of your company and how you operate. Make sure that you and anyone involved in the interview process knows and understands the role. Know ahead of time who's interviewing for it. Make sure they know they need to make their calendars available. And then, know that your compensation is competitive.
Lisa Heins:
Because you do not have time at the offer stage to go and get compensation and finance on-board, do all the justification that takes. It takes too long. You'll lose the candidates. Because the other thing that happens is that I find ... Maybe someone is passive. But then, once they start interviewing, then they're more likely to take calls during that period of time.
Lisa Heins:
They're like, "Okay, I'm already doing this. I'm already interviewing. I've got my resume fresh." They start interviewing maybe two or three places at once. And so, if you don't move quickly, which I'll probably get to here as well. Definitely moving quickly in the interview process from the first point of contact to that candidate all the way through offer stage. That should be no more than a few weeks process. I have some clients that are doing it within a week.
Peter Crosby:
Wow.
Lisa Heins:
Because they've adapted.
Peter Crosby:
And it's a good call out. As I'm listening to you talk about compensation ... Do you find yourself often in the position of your clients come to you saying, "That salary level's not going to work." The Emperor has no clothes.
Lisa Heins:
Almost all the time. I would say, 70% to 80% of the job orders I take on, it's a difficult conversation. Because I'm telling them a lot of things that they don't want to hear. I'm saying ... My next data point here. To talk to you a little bit about around what the employer needs to think about is remote jobs. This is this very sensitive item. Especially, for the old school brands. They're really stuck in their ways. For lack of a better word.
Lisa Heins:
They have these old school thoughts about the workforce that they really are holding on desperately to. From my chair, all I do is talk to these specific individuals. About 15 to 20 a week that I interview. When I get to the point of asking, "Susie, you live in Seattle. Where are you looking to work? Where are you open to opportunities?" The response is almost always remote. "Actually, Lisa, I really liked remote. I want to stay remote."
Lisa Heins:
Or they're willing to go into an office for important meetings, but they don't want to be on any set schedule. Realistically, I don't know what the percentage would be. But more than 50% of this talent still lives in the Northwest. They either worked at Amazon. Or a lot of the agencies and brands have created their e-comm offices here to have those relationships. And so, if you're not in Seattle, requiring someone to be near your office is reducing your pool.
Lisa Heins:
Honestly, I think you're reducing your pool by 90% at this point. When you say, "They have to work in this office at least three to five days a week. In this particular location." Your pool, which is already a challenging pool, goes to being not very many people. That's one of the hardest. I'm telling them, "You've got to go to remote, which you're resistant to. You have to raise your compensation, which you don't want." There's often a lot of delivering bad messages in that first call to my client.
Peter Crosby:
Hey, Lauren. When you were hiring ... How is this resonating with you? If you were in your seat at J&J or some other brand, how would you feel about all that? What kind of battle would you have fought to get some of those practices changed?
Lauren Livak:
It's funny. Because I was going to say something very similar to your question, Peter. When I was hiring, it was pre-pandemic. There weren't as many people with this specialty that were interested in it, that were looking. It took much longer to find someone. Peter, to your question about, "What would I do to fight for it?" I would. Knowing this space, and Lisa, to your point, knowing that you have to know what you're talking about ... I would fight tooth and nail for the compensation, for the remote work.
Lauren Livak:
Because the right talent in e-commerce is so critical to be successful. You have to be able to ladder to the strategy, to the details. You need to know what you're talking about to make informed decisions. Because we're moving so quickly in this space, there's not a lot of time for catch up. Maybe at the analyst level. I do fully believe that at the analyst level, you can bring someone in and they can learn, they can grow, they can get in the weeds.
Lauren Livak:
But at that leadership level, you need to know who to talk to, know where to look for information, know how to think about strategies. I would go to bat for these roles. Especially, at the leadership level. Because if you have strong leadership who understands the direction and can tell you where to focus in this space, which I think is one of the most important pieces ... I would love to hear if you agree, Lisa. But start with the leadership. And then, from an analyst perspective, you want to bring people in from your organization. And then, they can learn.
Lisa Heins:
You mentioned how long it took you to fill roles. And that was even pre-pandemic. To give myself a plug, I think that's why working with me is different. I had a client the other day tell me, "I've been working on this role for six months," and I about fell out of my chair. Because working with me, literally, I already know the people. I've already interviewed them.
Lisa Heins:
I have 5,000 plus people who do just this. It's literally three to seven business days and you have a full slate of candidates ready to interview who are qualified. That's how quickly we can get your role filled. But I'm hearing that from my clients. And it's because of a lot of things. Most of the brand recruiters don't understand e-commerce. They get on the phone, they can't recruit the candidates. The candidate hears that. And the candidate's just not returning their calls.
Lisa Heins:
That's the biggest thing. Whereas, I text them. I say, "I've got a job for you." They call me right back. That's challenging. Some other things I would add, Peter, in terms of what a brand can do. Like I said, that interview process has to be figured out before you start. Have all your ducks in a row. Have your compensation onboard. Your compensation team. Be prepared to really showcase that e-commerce is an important priority.
Lisa Heins:
For some of these brands, especially the older school brands, candidates are really skeptical. They know that evangelism and educating is going to be a big part of the job, but they don't want to constantly be knocking their head against a wall ... Basically, to be handcuffed to growing the business. I think there's still a perception that, some of the older school brands, they're not fully investing and not willing to do what it takes.
Lisa Heins:
And so, it's like, "Well, I can grow your business threefold, but you have to let me do it." I think that being ready to showcase that and really showing that you're investing heavily in e-commerce. That you are bringing on players who get this. Not just rotating someone from the other group over there, like a lot of the big brands do. I think they want to see that. That would be another thing that I think would be helpful for the brands.
Lauren Livak:
Lisa, I'm curious. If you give this feedback to a brand or manufacturer and they're like, "No. We're not going to do that." Is the reaction, "No, we're not going to do it," or is it, "We don't know how. We don't know who to talk to. We don't know how to make a business case." I'm just curious what the reaction is.
Lisa Heins:
I hear a lot of, "I know, Lisa, but they're not willing to do it. I keep telling them this." Especially, around the remote, really. That's where I get the most resistance. "We have to have this person here." Sometimes I won't take the job. I'm a one-person shop, so I'm super selective on ... I'm not going to take something that no one's going to accept in terms of the job.
Lisa Heins:
And so, depending on the location of the employer, I'm like, "I'm not going to find someone that's going to work in wherever that has this skillset." I think they don't know how to navigate that change, because it's so embedded that that's important to the culture of the company. Some leadership somewhere is really resistant. I get a lot of hopelessness, frankly, from the bigger clients.
Lisa Heins:
Now, my small to medium clients have a lot more ability to make changes. They're like, "Wow, that's really great to know. Let me get back to you on that." And then, they go and talk to whom it may be and say, "Literally, we're looking at less than 10% of the available pool. That's already small if we make this decision." And so, most of them are pretty flexible.
Lauren Livak:
I always find with big companies ... And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. If you say another big company who's in their league is doing it, they'll think about it. Is that the case?
Lisa Heins:
It definitely helps to give some examples.
Lauren Livak:
Okay.
Lisa Heins:
Absolutely. But it is true. It has made a huge difference for some of my clients to make those shifts. Because even for those who do make those shifts, even for those who have competitive compensation and offer remote jobs, it is still challenging to fill these roles with these experts. I think they're just inundated. I think they get really fatigued from getting reached out to by so many people that they just shut down.
Peter Crosby:
I certainly won't mention any names, but a good friend of mine was at an established brand. They wanted to go back to three to five days in the office. Probably ... I don't know. Eight months later, three quarters of the team was gone. Of the digital team.
Lisa Heins:
And that's the other thing. Retention. 100%.
Peter Crosby:
Right.
Lisa Heins:
Again, I'm in an interesting space, because I am in such a niche that oftentimes my clients become my candidates. A lot of times, that is the reason right now. They're like, "Well, my company said we're probably going to be able to stay remote, but now they're making us come in. I don't want to do that anymore." It is definitely going to become a retention problem in addition to an attraction problem. I agree 100% with that.
Lauren Livak:
I'm curious, Lisa. You see all the roles. You read the job descriptions. You see the titles. Are you finding that the job descriptions in the roles are making sense for the needs of a team in this space? Or someone who's growing or building a digital center of excellence?
Lauren Livak:
Do you find that they're informed decisions to build the team in the right way? Or do you find that it's like, "We think we need this, but we don't really know."
Lisa Heins:
I don't really know. For those that are literally building their teams from the ground up ... There's a lot for them to figure out in terms of where they put the priority. I think sometimes they emphasize the wrong things on the job description. I was talking to someone the other day that was looking for basically their first full-on Amazon person that was going to own the full Amazon business.
Lisa Heins:
They wanted the person to do seven different things, for one. They wanted to do ads and content and chargebacks and sales and promotions. That's not one person, typically. The person who's capable and qualified to do the sales and promotions and advertising doesn't want to do the content, and doesn't want to do the more manual work. And so, that's a turnoff.
Lisa Heins:
Their job description was half content. A+ detail pages. This, that, and the other. I'm like, "You're not going to get a candidate." They're like, "We haven't filled it in six months." I was like, "I'm not surprised." Putting the focus on ... You got to be honest about the job, but when you're trying to attract the candidate, you don't want to emphasize the parts they're going to hate. It shouldn't be half your job description.
Lauren Livak:
Exactly. That makes a ton of sense.
Peter Crosby:
Good tip there, Lisa.
Lauren Livak:
Great tip.
Peter Crosby:
Do not emphasize the hateful part of the job. Good to know.
Lauren Livak:
But I think that speaks a lot to knowing the space and knowing what's happening. That's so important for all of the manufacturers, organizations that are looking. I'm curious. We're kind of transitioning to normal. There's air quotes happening in that sentence. What is normal? We don't know. What do you think? What do you predict, Lisa? What is your crystal ball of what's going to happen with talent?
Peter Crosby:
Lauren and I keep talking about ... We have inflation and supply chain problems and conflicts in the world. Are you seeing any of that in the future? Maybe a slowdown coming?
Lisa Heins:
I don't know about that. About a slowdown. Certainly, candidates are scrutinizing opportunities more when it comes to the supply chain issues. They're really thoughtful about maybe what categories might be more impacted by those issues. Maybe wanting to steer away from ... Again, for those companies having those big supply issues. Or industries. That's one more negative thing against hiring for them, because the candidates are aware and have been feeling some pain points and are looking to maybe get away from that. Particularly, if it's a high bonus model.
Lisa Heins:
I would say, if you are a category or a company that is having supply chain issues or are likely to ... You need to make the compensation plans more base heavy and less tied to business results, to not have that be a deterrent. Because that's where the candidates really are like, "Well, if I'm not going to hit my bonus because of a supply chain issue I couldn't control, that's going to be a negative for me." I don't think a lot of these things are going to change though.
Lisa Heins:
I hear a lot of clients that say, "I know, but things are changing. People should be willing to go back into the office." And I don't think that's going to change. I really think that this remote thing is to stay. I think a lot of people have chosen to move their families to different places during this time. They want that flexibility to live where they want to live. I don't think that's going to go away.
Lisa Heins:
Whereas, I think some employers are sitting back thinking, "People are just a little nervous still. They're going to be willing to come into the office." Again, this is a unique niche. These candidates with these skill sets have the ability to be very picky and they know that they do. I'm sure there's other marketplaces where they're not going to have any trouble getting people to come in the office full-time, because that's where the job's going to be.
Lisa Heins:
But because this talent is ... I think the supply and demand issue is going to get worse not better, in terms of talent. I'll tell you why. One is the agencies are having to pay a lot more to retain their talent and to get new talent. What's that going to mean? That means their prices are going to have to go up. There's going to be more and more brands that are choosing to bring this talent in-house, as opposed to leveraging agencies, which they've done in the past. Because that cost, there's no way the agencies can't pass it on. They only have so much of a margin.
Peter Crosby:
You're hearing that already?
Lisa Heins:
Yes.
Peter Crosby:
Which is brand customers coming and saying, "It's now getting too expensive to work with these agencies."
Lisa Heins:
Yep.
Peter Crosby:
Wow.
Lisa Heins:
They're both my clients. I love them all. But my agency clients also, they're having a tough time not raising their rates. Because they're having to make a lot of changes in compensation to retain. Especially, retain. It's a blood bath right now. If you're not competitive, you're going to lose your talent. And then, you kind of lose your business. Because if you can't keep your staff staffed up, everyone's going to leave. Because they're just having zero turnout.
Peter Crosby:
Turnover at an agency ... I mean, any company, but as an agency must be painful. I would imagine.
Lisa Heins:
The ones that are ... If I was a brand picking an agency, I would be looking at their policies around time off and flexibility. I have a couple of clients I work with that's just done a fantastic job around offering a lot of time off and flexibility. Just that culture that you want to work for.
Lisa Heins:
They're moderate pay. They're not the highest pay in the market, but they offer something that no one else offers right now. In terms of those types of flexibilities. And so, they're retaining their talent.
Peter Crosby:
The employee matters.
Lauren Livak:
I was just going to say. That in-house perspective is interesting. Because when I was in the CPG world, we were having that conversation back then. Pre-pandemic.
Lisa Heins:
Wow.
Lauren Livak:
I think now it is fully shifted, because people are realizing that there's more control. You know your brand the best. If you have the talent, you can control when the market changes. There's so many things that are pivoting towards having a model internally to be successful.
Lauren Livak:
But to your point, Lisa, that requires a lot of expertise. You need to know how to put products on Amazon, how to put products on Walmart, what the retailers look like. That requires a level of expertise too.
Lisa Heins:
I think it's so interesting. Because some of these bigger, older school brands ... J&J's probably one of them. They have a way of doing things. They rotate. That's how it works. You work in this role 18 months to two years, you rotate into the next.
Lisa Heins:
They're trying to rotate people into the Amazon role that have never done Amazon before, that have come from brick and mortar. I'm sure they're very talented general ad leads, but I really think ... Particularly, with Amazon. There's so many nuances to that flywheel, that if you do right, your business is going to explode. But people don't think about it.
Lauren Livak:
That's such a great point about ... Sorry, Peter. I was just going to say, that's such a great point about the rotating. Because I think that is a bit more of a traditional mindset. Where now, in this space, you need a level of expertise until you get to a certain level. I think those will be ... Peter says this all the time, "The next CEOs of the world will be those that are e-commerce and they understand digital."
Lisa Heins:
100%. Yes.
Lauren Livak:
They know what's happening, because you understand the business cross-functionally. But there's a level of expertise and understanding you need to build up before you can get to that point. That's also interesting for brands to think about. What is the model of career development? How are you building that into the career track of e-commerce and digital as a whole?
Lisa Heins:
Well, and I would say too ... I tell all of my clients. As much as I want them to hire me to recruit their talent, those that are going to be successful are going to learn how to build some and buy some. Because it's not affordable to build it all. The more junior roles. Have a good system in place. Training. There's some great companies out there like Allume Group that do training for this specific space.
Lisa Heins:
And that's also going to be key. Because otherwise, again, your margins. The amount you're going to have to pay these people is so high. I think for those more junior roles, figuring out a system. Whether it be bringing in consultants from outside. Or having experts in your own team that can be partially responsible for training up people and teaching them.
Lisa Heins:
Especially, advertising. Amazon ads ... It's no joke right now, finding that talent. It's very hard to find people experienced with Amazon advertising or DSP. And so, having someone that can train. Maybe someone who's done Google ads to do Amazon ads. It's going to be part of the success as well.
Lauren Livak:
It's also in the leads.
Peter Crosby:
Our friend, Andrea ... Sorry.
Lauren Livak:
No. Go, Peter.
Peter Crosby:
I was just going to say, our friend Andrea Leigh who's in Seattle just started the Allume Group. Really coming out of Ideoclick and seeing that need for bringing people along and creating the enough knowledge for this industry to actually work. It really is, to your point, a supply and demand problem. I loved your build versus buy analogy.
Lisa Heins:
I was so excited when I heard what Andrea is doing. Because I'm like, "That is so needed right now."
Lauren Livak:
Yes.
Lisa Heins:
There's just not enough talent. Like I said, we joke about it all the time. Hiring a bunch of recent grads and training them on Amazon ads. Boy, we'd be rich quick.
Peter Crosby:
In some ways, we were talking about this the other day. I forgot in what meeting I was in, but about the need to start engaging universities in this field.
Lisa Heins:
In digital.
Peter Crosby:
In digital. The career opportunities are enormous. And it's fun. Really, it's just changing so fast. It's so vibrant.
Lauren Livak:
You learn so much.
Peter Crosby:
Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Lisa Heins:
Every day. I do. That's what I tell my husband. I'm like, "I learn something new every day from one of my candidates or from my clients." There's always something changing and growing, and a new space and a new offering. That's exactly what I love about it.
Peter Crosby:
Well, Lisa, thank you so much for passing along the information you have accumulated today. I do want to ... First of all, I want to spell your last name. H-E-I-N-S?
Lisa Heins:
Yeah.
Peter Crosby:
And tell everyone to go to Lisa Heins on LinkedIn and follow you. Because you post about these issues in a really great way.
Lisa Heins:
Thank you.
Peter Crosby:
I'm presuming you have no objection to someone reaching out to you on LinkedIn?
Lisa Heins:
Absolutely. My email's on there also on my LinkedIn page. For candidates or clients looking to work with me, that's the best way to start. Either email me or connect with me on LinkedIn. I will reach out to everyone who connects with me on LinkedIn within a week and make sure that we are connected and have good contact.
Lisa Heins:
Basically, anyone who has experience in these marketplaces, doing business on Amazon. I don't do tech. I should say that. I'm not a technical recruiter, but I do pretty much everything on the business side. That'd be great.
Peter Crosby:
That's great. Well, Lisa, thank you again for taking the time out. I'll just tell our audience, she's actually in Cabo right now.
Lisa Heins:
I know.
Lauren Livak:
We're very jealous.
Lisa Heins:
I missed water volleyball. It was at the same time. Our water volleyball game.
Lauren Livak:
We're so honored.
Peter Crosby:
I don't even know how to compensate you for that.
Lisa Heins:
It's fine. It's fine. I'm happy to.
Peter Crosby:
I appreciate you coming in off the beach to share your knowledge with us. We really do appreciate it.
Lisa Heins:
I'll bring the sun home to those in Seattle. I promise.
Peter Crosby:
It's on its way.
Lauren Livak:
Thanks, Lisa.
Lisa Heins:
Thank you.
Peter Crosby:
Thanks again to Lisa for joining us. As Lauren said, I think of our audience as the present and future CMOs, CEOs, CDOs of the industry. It is our privilege to engage guests who can help you on that journey. Run on over to digitalshelfinstitute.org and sign up as a member to stay connected. Thanks for being part of our community.
