Maximizing Retailer Relationships: How to Win with Joint Business Planning, with Lynsey Sweales, Partner & Global Omni-Channel Strategist at Cognitive Union

Transcript

Our transcripts are generated by AI. Please excuse any typos and if you have any specific questions please email info@digitalshelfinstitute.org.

Peter Crosby (00:00):

Welcome to unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age. Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. In an ever-changing e-commerce environment, both brands and retailers need to collaborate together in order to align on initiatives and goals that are beneficial for both sides. Many of these conversations happen during joint business planning, but it is often not standardized across retailers and so brands might not know the right question to ask or data to bring to the table to have the most beneficial conversations. This is a podcast rebroadcast of a webinar hosted by Lauren Livak Gilbert and featuring Lynsey Sweales partner and global omnichannel strategists at Cognitive Union. Listen in as they discuss best practices for JBP planning and how to prioritize working with your retailers.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (01:03):

Tr welcome to the webinar around JBP Joint Business Planning and we are going to talk about how you can build out a better structure for your joint business plan, how to be the best partner with your retailer. We all know that brands and retailers need to have a stronger partnership moving forward so that both of us on both sides of the fence can win. So really excited to dive in today. For those of you who do not know me, my name is Lauren Livak Gilbert, I lead the Digital Shelf Institute. So excited to have everyone as a member if you are a member. If not, please become a member of the DSI and I'm really excited to be here with Lindsay. I will let her introduce herself.

Lynsey Sweales (01:42):

Thanks Lauren. Really excited to be here. My name is Lindsay, I'm a partner at Cognitive Union and we partner with organizations to enable growth through digital data marketing and leadership. Transf transformation via capability building, consultancy and coaching. Got 20 years plus in digital e-com of work client side, agency side and upskilling some of the biggest brands in the world, Colgate, L'Oreal, and CDO to name just a few and also have two books.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (02:11):

Awesome. Thanks so much Lindsay. And just quick housekeeping, if you have any questions, please do pop them into the q and a and we'll get to them at the end. And then I will let Lindsay take it from here.

Lynsey Sweales (02:23):

Thank you Lauren. Very excited to share my talk with you today along with some actionable takeaways on a very topical subject joint business playing. So as Lauren's already alluded to, we're going to be covering a few things over the next 45 minutes and if you do have any questions, drop them in the chat and Lauren will share them with me along the way or we can catch them at the end. So what I'm going to be sharing with you today is we have to start on the current state of retail. We're going to talk about the challenges brands face with collaboration. Going to share with you my joint business process that we've been upskilling a number of brands on and they've been using within an organization. And we're going to talk on q and a as well. But I always love a question before we start a session just to sort of see where people are in their knowledge of things or more importantly, how well do they know their retailer. So on a scale of one to 10, how well do you feel your retailers as a brand or if you're a brand, how well do you think, sorry, if you're a retailer, how well do you think you know your brand? So one being I have no idea what they're up to and we work with them, but I dunno how or 10 is. I know them really well, I know them inside out and upside down

Lauren Livak Gilbert (03:36):

And you'll see a poll pop up on your screen. So I see people are replying, getting a bunch of responses. We are going to keep the poll open for a couple more seconds, so come back to your computer and vote 5, 4, 3, 2. I will end the poll. All right, so Lindsay, it looks like most people, 27% said they're at about a seven on the scale. 23% said they're at about an eight and 15%, about a six. So pretty even distribution there between not knowing them or knowing them pretty well.

Lynsey Sweales (04:16):

Okay, thank you Lauren. And thank you for your participation in knowing that it's really just useful a gauge to know how well people think they know their retailers or their brands. And we're going to come back to that question at the end. So let's have a look at where we are in the retail space. The retail space is very interesting. It's changing and there is ultimately less market take, so we have to be on it to win the sale. As you can see from the overall e-commerce growing and that's going to continue. But as a percentage of total sales, it isn't much. There's a lot going on and there isn't that big jump. So it's not all about e-comm, but it plays a key part in the retail ecosystem. The retail industry is undergoing a significant transformation with the line between brick and mortar and e-commerce becoming more and more blurry.

(05:10):

And as we look to the rest of 2024 and beyond, retailers need to stay ahead of the curve to position their business for success in this evolving landscape. And obviously brands need to work with them as well. Digital has been that great equalizer. Companies now have to find new ways to stand out and avoid the sinking into the sea of sameness. And in terms of stats globally, revenue in the e-commerce market is projected to reach just over $4 billion in 2024. EMEA is likely to get to 7.46 billion US dollars and the Americas region is due to get to around 1.3 billion. So in a nutshell, there is less market to take and so we have to be on it to the sale. So how can we do this? First, let's look at other challenges we need to factor in as well.

(06:10):

So if that's some of the trends, there are also a number of challenges which I just want to counter through before we move on to the joint business plan. Exciting stuff. There are higher expectations for integrated in-store and e-commerce experiences. AI is going to become ambiguous and improve the customer experience. There is an increased focus on targeting on boomer shoppers. Consumers will take more control and even more control as we move forward on their personal data. Marketers will become previously champions because they have to and investment in first party and zero party data will increase for obvious reasons. We also have the ethical rise of AI and AI will impact business models and how brands work with MarTech vendors as well. And finally, brands are reprioritizing their own channel experience versus paid channels as well. So as a brand, what should we be focused on?

(07:08):

This is a pyramid we share with many of the organizations we work with. Brands have to be an integrated approach to accelerate that omnichannel journey. So how and what should they be doing? The note here is on how and why to work with certain retailers. So ultimately it's about setting that vision and ambition first of all. So thinking about developing a consumer backed vision for brands and the future of omnichannel shopping journey, we then need to prioritize our retailers and that's what we're really going to focus on today. Retailers are super thin on the ground when it comes to resources. So they're going to be looking for brands that they want to work with and can collaborate with and do that collaboration. So help them to win and make them look good and grow their market share. So it's working as a team. So as a brand we have to prioritize the markets and prioritize the retailers that we want to be working with that we can work with collaboratively.

(08:06):

We then have to revamp the commercial initiatives and playbook. So we really have to develop an integrated playbook of the shortlist best practices by retailer types and running retailer workshops so we can collaboratively work together. And finally we have to develop internal capabilities with an action plan. So really think about determining those internal capabilities required for omnichannel vision and initiatives and consolidate all of this into what we call a now next long prioritization sheet. If you want a copy of that, please drop me a message at the end of today's webinar and I'll be more than happy to share it with you. But retailers are very much on the same journey themselves and they know how important that joint business plans are. They're important to them and this is where joint business plans come in. So we know what working with retailers and brands is more collaborative and this is important.

(09:01):

But a key part of that, which we can't not mention today, is data. Some retailers will already be using it, some will be using it wisely, some less. So some brands I'm working with are very siloed. Some have data and they dunno what to do with it. And on the flip side of that, some brands have lots of data and some have minimal data. And there was a great podcast that I listened to on the DSI podcast called Metrics that Matter from Gregory Murray. And if you haven't listened to that, it's definitely worth listening to along with Andrew Pearl's one, which was back in 2022, but it was very much focusing on the democratization of e-commerce. Again, a really good listen so both retailers and brands can collaborate and work in partnership, but it's about a number of key factors that I'm going to share with you today.

(09:52):

So when we do collaborate on joint business plan data can provide some really great opportunities and their opportunities can really think about the market level insights, really thinking about the end customer research and focusing on value ads. But of course we have to be aware of data governance and GDPR. So if I could wave a magic wand and by the end of this webinar share the instant formula on working with retailers or brands successfully, I would be sat on a beach right now with a p colada in my hand. But I don't have that instant winning formula. However, what I do have today is a three step formula that we've created to help brands and retailers and many of the brands and retailers I've mentioned today already have rolled this out successfully. So you're probably thinking Lindsay, what is that three lever approach? Well I'm going to share it with you.

(10:43):

So the three lever approach to win with retailers or with brands, you can flip this the other way is you have to master all three of these areas and this three step process I created a number of years ago at Cognitive Union, we've been using both with retailers and brands very successfully through capability building. And ultimately as you can see on screen there is a three three-step approach. One is winning with priority retailers and while there's multiple verticals platforms, it's important to define the important priority ones for us to scale an organization. You also then need to prioritize the investment and then of course prioritize the win. So today we're going to focus on one aspect of that which is win with priority retailers. So this framework is based on a workshop and this workshop can really work through and we need to understand thinking about winning with priority retailers.

(11:36):

So thinking about understanding our target audience as a brand. First of all, understanding the core retail models where our brand operate and that can obviously be globally and in market, keeping a real close eye on market changes because they're very different in different markets, knowing the size of the market and ensuring you can measure your growth. And the last part, which is what we're going to cover today is auditing retailers you're working with and prioritizing them into three tiers for a joint business plan implementation. So you can't work with all the retailers, it's simply not possible. So let us share with you today how you can audit, prioritize and create a joint business plan.

(12:20):

So whether you are a retailer or a brand wherever you are, the objective always has to be focused on that sweet spot in the middle. So for commercial e-commerce retail teams to work together we have to create a joint business plan. And the overall characteristics of a joint business plan are shopper centric. So a developer a best in class insights that enhance that shop experience, value chain visibility, review and optimize end to end defining dashboard, one version of the truth to assess, evaluate and monitor that productive process and policy alignment on what will and what will not be shared the near and long-term. So the near and long-term forward-thinking planning 36 plus months out, the strategic and pragmatic jointly and I mean jointly develop strategies and initiatives in a simple execution plan. Senior sponsorship is so important that we have a multifunctional endorsement and engagement from both parties.

(13:25):

And robust monitoring results are frequently reviewed as a multifunctional team. So to get to this space, we have to have mutual trust and transparency because without that we can't have success. So this all sounds great, but without mutual transparency, trust and transparency, it can be challenging due to non-disclosure and confidentiality from the retailer's perspective, they have to trust that any data shared with you guys, it won't be shared with another retailer that they're working with shared insights with a freni. So retailers might believe that we secretly seek favor for our own brand.com offerings and give that insights to us likely giving it to creative. But the reality of the power dynamic is a joint business plan is a simple definition of a collaborative planning process between the retailer and a brand where both parties are aligned to short, medium, and long-term either financial goals and I'll come back onto that because the goals don't always have to be financial for their shared business and drive multifunctional initiatives for growth and profitability.

(14:32):

So what does that really mean? Joint business is about sharing a deeper understanding of those trading partnerships, goals, objectives, and aligning on a shared vision and working together to really achieve the shared vision. It is easy to confuse a joint business plan with a typical business planning process. So the key inputs to a shared joint business plan are shared shopper and marketplace insights as inputs into jointly defined strategies and initiatives, collaborative working relationships focused on time and effort, joint investment into breakthrough demand driving or cost cutting initiatives. And just coming back to that aligned objectives, they don't have to be financial, it can be joint brand awareness, it can be joint revenue, it can be joint data capture, can be joint retention, can be upgrading, consumers can be market share, can be profitability, can be incremental, consumers can be visibility, benefits can be omnichannel, reach online and offline, but ultimately it's about total alignment.

(15:39):

That process for aligning on key initiatives can be awkward and difficult. Trading partners may not want to fully agree to priorities or overall direction. Performing a simple Venn diagram exercise as shown on the screen now can be really helpful to determine areas of potential alignment by identifying who you can, focusing on who you can work with, what your mutual target is, so what are your collective goals and how you should address your opportunities. In essence, this exercise really helps you to agree on things that you agree on and set aside the things that you disagree on. Focusing on the remaining items allows you a more productive and better use of time and following these steps. So draw the Venn diagram as shown, arrange the initiatives and opportunities in the appropriate space and then select the items that do complete alignment with top priorities and eliminate those ones of conflict and concentrate on the items of a potential.

(16:40):

So it's about picking the right set of retailers to win, but if we don't align, it can be challenging. So it can be challenging because if you don't have that mutual trust and transparency, there's unclear objectives. It might be that one of the parties is not fully transparent in their sharing of information. The plan was not properly communicated to everyone involved. And that's why I said earlier we have to get total internal alignment. The partners have different objectives or hidden agendas in the joint venture. One party is investing too much in terms of expertise, finance or assets or other party. And I've seen that with a global brand where for some reason they agreed to work with a new retailer and of course the big brand was putting in all the effort and the new retailer suggested they could and they didn't. And so it fell down very quickly.

(17:31):

Different cultures and management styles with partners may result import integration. I've seen that a lot in GCC countries. And finally the partners don't provide sufficient leadership and support in the early stages of the program. So as a starting point, how can we prioritize retailers? So some of these questions might help you. So which retailers from your perspective have the highest sales for your categories have the most traffic, IE eyeballs have the highest conversion, are collaborative for test and learn and data sharing Can consume content direct from a single source of truth are the most profitable business for you, can help accelerate and reinforce key brand and product attributes and equities are open to a joint business plan with you and willing to share some deeper goals. So just as a reminder, if you have any questions, please do drop them in the chat afterwards and there will be a recording of this webinar that you can get after this because I totally appreciate sharing quite a lot of content but building those deeper relationships which enable more activation with fewer of them.

(18:43):

But you're probably thinking, well Lindsay, if I work with some of them at a certain level and some at another level, what might that look like? You can't work with all retailers at the same level. It's simply not possible realistic or best use of time or resources. So I'm going to share with you a joint business plan insight sheet later. And once you've done that, what you can then start to do is start to put them in three different areas. So you've got the foundational level. The foundational level tier represents a basic joint business planning opportunity. For example, the brand and retailer may have some common objectives and strength and challenges of the retailer present ABL some limited. So limited opportunity for collaboration. Brands may decide that they lack resources or the inclination based on the insights that they've gathered from the joint business plan to develop a deeper relationship with these retailers beyond saying have stock listings at the present time.

(19:37):

However they may be open to future collaborations further down the line then you have advanced level. So with the second tier, brands have identified retailers that they feel they have a better understand and or those that feel offer better collaboration opportunities. Placing a retailer in this tier means brands can build on what they already know and invest in resources in developing future analysis into aspects such as supply chain or logistic efficiencies as well as shopper marketing processes. Inevitably, brands are likely to spend more time and effort or retailers in this tier, obviously compared to foundational basic level tiers. And then you have the highest level of tiers and obviously the clue is in the name. This leadership tier represents the greatest priority for joint business planning. Placing a retailer in this category requires the highest level of commitment investment in research and developing a collaborative relationship with the key decision makers in this tier. Brands are focused on creating a very much a two-way partnership when it comes to consumer data where they are prepared to share basket information, consumer demographic, understanding shopper research and potential strategies with the retailer. In this type of close relationship, retailers would also be expected to share up and coming innovations, growth numbers for brands respective category and strategies for acquiring new household, increasing basket size, et cetera.

(21:09):

So how can we build a joint business plan using an integrated online offline approach? A classic joint business plan will look very similar to this. It starts towards the end of the year typically when the next year targets and partnership plans are often discussed or being discussed. There will be several retailers with whom a joint business plan planning in terms of investment revenue targets, market share objectives, objectives are discussed in detail. Many retailers and brands are building partnerships to value exchanges which acts as a win-win for both and obviously a win for the customer as well or the consumer. The entire objective of a joint business planning with a retailer and brand is to have that mutual gain and that's a really important term, mutual gain, long-term positive association and a win-win on both sides.

(22:03):

So setting joint business plan expectations. So while there's many retailers who planning is required, it's important to consider a few points. The quantum contribution by a particular retailer will help decide how much time and effort is needed to chart out the internal planning, existing working relationship and vendor quality of services on time provided by the retailer will also decide for planning who all as a team member or stakeholders will be involved in that planning process, both internally as well as actual meetings with the retailer. This is a key aspect as it is here where relationships are built a clear activity sheet. So targets goals and requirements from both brand and retailers should be exchanged in advance to be prepared and effectively for that decision-making process. And since joint business plans will have both qualitative and quantitative inputs, metrics for measurement right from the top to the bottom of the funnel should be discussed during that plan closure of joint business plan. But before you reach out to retailers you need a full internal alignment. And this brings me on to what successful joint business plan looks like to again build that trust and transparency.

(23:23):

So there is, I like threes and this is another three step approach that we use at come to union that I just want to walk you through because you can't just go and build a relationship with a retailer and I'm going to explain why. So we have to align internally first. So firstly, I recommend that senior leaders play an active role in kicking off the joint business plan process internally. This includes setting the stage, clarifying the ground rules with all key stakeholders within your brand and organization and being available and visible support for the process. Secondly, as senior leaders should make it clear that they approve all final joint business plans and authorize their implementation at various levels. This might take the form of example for senior leaders to physically sign off on verified plans. And thirdly, senior leaders should participate in the joint business plan review and the insights process or at least semi-annual or annual depending on that level of seniority and clear and transparent processes should be established in best results.

(24:25):

And start by defining your assets, prioritizing your opportunities, and seeking out and making a list of who you feel are the right retail partners. Moving on to the second, creating that internal alignment. So moving to a collaborative approach requires your multifunctional team to be able to see the bigger picture, turning data into insights beyond brand or thinking beyond brand and total category and have that better understanding of the consumer being really consumer centric and the shopper. And these responsibilities must be expanded to marketing sales if you're doing private label retail teams and really be aligned on that approach. And finally thinking about moving to that external collaboration and joint business planning. Now that you've established where you are and currently are with retailer retail partners, you can then undertake start to think about your joint business planning process so that next level in a collaborative relationship and a joint business plan should build the foundations established in collaborative relationships.

(25:30):

The reason all of this is so important is I've seen time and time again. An example I have is someone agreed a joint business plan internally, sorry. So a big global brand agreed a joint business plan with a retailer. And because they haven't agreed it internally, what they then had to do is they then had to wiggle out of that agreement before signing. And so of course that brand and retailer lost trust and transparency and of course the relationship is done. So what does that whole process look like and how can you get there? So here is a joint business planning framework and I share this in my insight sheet, so you're welcome to download this later. So a successful joint business plan is a collaborative document, not a one-way document. Joint business plan means jointly successful deep insight and meaningful information is shared and agreed and it's a joint business plan.

(26:23):

After all, traditional planning structures need to change in traditional planning models, most activities incur internally with a separate organization relation, retailers and brands. Touch points are limited and most have been funneled through a buyer or seller. And this structure creates a positional based negotiation relationship where one party wins and the other one loses. This structure is very different. So with a joint business plan here, the cross-functional teams meet frequently at lots of different levels and work towards a common goal and objectives. And this structure allows for mutual interest to be discussed and based on their merits and transparency and trust are the crux here. And through this method, great relationships can be formed. So as you can see with this diagram, it's about sharing mutual opportunities and developing that categories and creating that joint business plan and then creating the content that aligns to that.

(27:21):

So where should we start before we start? Before we even begin, we have to build a great relationship on trust and transparency. So we have to know our retailers really well, which is why I asked you this question earlier. But here are some questions to think about how well do we know our retailers? So I've created a retailer joint business plan insight sheet, which I will share with you shortly and you'll also get a copy of that at the end. But it'd be really interesting to know how much of these questions here you self-reflecting that you could answer at the moment. And when we get to the joint business plan insight sheet, how much of that could you complete today? This is a really good signal for you and your organization, how you fare. We know you don't always,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:11):

I was just going to say, Lindsay, as everyone's listening, we're going to do that poll again at the end to see do you really feel like you know them based on the questions that Lindsay is outlining? So keep that in mind as you're thinking through.

Lynsey Sweales (28:24):

Yeah, thank you Lauren. So we know you don't always get the data that you want and the information you need from a retailer, you're going to know some better than others. But what I'm really saying here is you really need to understand as much as you can about your retailer or brand or brand if you're a retailer. So some of this can be gained through analysis or discussion, others like data will require cocoon. And the key here is to keep asking the right questions to maximize your ability to work effectively with them. And some of this is also just good relationship building. So to help you with this, you need to ask the right questions and get to know each other really well. That's two way, not one way. A way to think about this is if an organization, so putting your organization hat on a minute, if another organization suddenly started asking you quite detailed questions you might not want to tell 'em and you might feel a bit off and think like they're asking me quite intrusive questions.

(29:19):

And it's very much like dating as if you were dating, you're highly unlikely to not get a first date with somebody if you're swiping on Tinder or one of the other platforms and you swipe swipe right and then the first question you ask is do you want to get married? It's about getting to know each other and building that relationship of mutual trust. And this may take a long-term strategy, it might be that you can't go out and ask those questions, putting people like why do they want to know that? But if you go thinking about this process and garnering insights and building that relationship and thinking about not dating, but thinking about how you build a relationship and building mutual and trust and being helpful to each other, you can really start to think about how you can build these relationships. So some retailers are used to brands, large ones who I won't name today, almost demanding what they want.

(30:13):

Some of the biggest brands have to traditionally and been able to demand what they want used to have to play ball with them as retailers. Now as we say in the uk, the tail is much more wagging the dog as we say in the uk. So some retailers have more assets which brands want and they're not always willing just to say yes. Having worked with some of the world's largest CPG brands, I know this firsthand, and this is where many of the largest brands have been upskilling their general managers through many of the areas I've been sharing today because we've been doing it and other key stakeholders involved in retailer relationships on the process of what I'm sharing with you today. And it's also a great way to build relationships. So if you'd like to know more about that, drop me a message after today.

(31:00):

But it's really about that mutual trust and helping your general managers or your e-comm or your retail relationship managers thinking about what does that mutual gain look like. So even when you've got all these insights, how can we mutually negotiate? And we've done a lot of work of that with that at tive Union. So if your partner really is unhelpful, you can get some information from the likes of similar web like customer profiles and the channel they use, but it can really help you think about this joint business plan insight sheet. So I'm going to share this sheet because I've been talking about it a lot today and it isn't a magic wand instant, but it will really help you to garner how much you think you really know about retailers and the readiness to start a joint business discussion with them. So shall we take a look?

(31:49):

So this sheet when it's fully completed, means that the commercial and brand person really knows their retailer and brand and shows that they have a really good foundational relationship with them. Without this knowledge, they are sort of walking around blind because they don't know that they can have a guess. But I'd be interested to know as a self-reflection for those attending today, how much of this sheet do you think you could complete on your top retailers? So as an example, retailers challenges. Do you know your retailers challenges? And can these be based on information that they've shared with you or your own observations or a mixture of both maturity of their data and CRM as an example, how data mature are they and what are their data points related to their customers, which they have access to and forward thinking innovation. So and how is a retailer thinking acting to stay ahead?

(32:41):

For example, are they testing new routes to market or are they testing new delivery methods and they're short, medium and long-term goals? What are they? Do you know them? What are their plans for maintaining and growth? So also just some general things here. Obviously private label is a big area for retailers. Data online, offline joined up thinking about do they have a 360 view retail media? We know a lot of them are doing it, definitely the more innovative brands and also those innovations I touched on how innovative are they? And it really shows if they're working with Uber Eats or delivery or via robot, it shows how innovative and how open they might be. And many brands have delivered this full three lever approach are winning with retailers and have been using this insight sheet successfully to create much better relationships with their retailers. So based on what I've shared with you today, I would now like to ask you the same question and we'll do the same poll again that I asked you at the beginning of today's session. So bringing all of this together on a scale of one to 10, how well do you think you know your retailer? So basically how much of that insight sheet do you think you could complete today or how many of those challenges that I shared, one being, oh we dunno much of that at all, if any. And 10 is Lindsay, I could answer that sheet right now. Give me a sheet and I'll fill it out completely for the top retailers we work with.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (34:14):

And you'll see the poll pop up on your screen. So if you can come back to the webinar and vote, I see votes coming in, we will keep it open for a couple more seconds to allow people to vote. I am going to close it in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. All right. Ah, quite interesting. It looks like the score's a bit lower now. Most people say 28% on the webinar say they're at a six, 16% are either at eight or five. So we saw more of an even distribution before, but I feel like we've lowered a bit in terms of the questions that we've been able to ask.

Lynsey Sweales (35:00):

Yeah, thank you Lauren. And thank you guys for your participation. And that's not a trick question, just it gets you to think. And another question I often ask brands or retailers is how customer-centric are you? And they'll go, oh, we are an eight or a nine and then I do my customer centricity training and they go, we want to be customer-centric, we want to do it, but we haven't implemented it. So we are probably a four to a six. So hopefully what I've shared with you today has been really useful. But what I want to do is just wrap up all of that because it's quite a lot to cover. But my key takeaways are first of all is use the joint business plan insight sheet for each retailer and use it as your fact finding mission align internally on your joint business plan approach.

(35:41):

So I've shared with you the three internal process, prioritize your retailers against foundational, advanced and leadership, and then you can create a now next long action plan. And if you'd like a copy of the now next long action plan, do drop me an email. So I'd really like to thank you for joining me today. And again, a huge thank you to Lauren and the amazing DSI team for inviting me back. As always, it's been great to be able to share some very timely and actionable tips on joint business plan, which I know DSI are working on some exciting project at the moment. I know everyone's time is precious, so I really appreciate you joining me. We're going to take questions in a moment, but I promised today that I would share with you my joint business plan insight sheet. So if you'd like a copy, there's a QR code where you can get a copy of it as a free download and it also shares some of the other frameworks as a bonus because I love to be as helpful as possible. Thank

Lauren Livak Gilbert (36:34):

You so much Lindsay, and let's keep this slide up. So scan the QR code and also if you're not a DSI member, please do scan that QR code to become a DSI member. So we do have a couple of questions, so let's dive into those and then if there's other questions, please feel free to drop them in the q and a. So first question, how long does joint business planning preparation and then the process usually take and what do you see that interaction look like with the brands and the retailers? Is it like six months in advance and then one big meeting? What does that timing look like usually?

Lynsey Sweales (37:11):

Geez, that's a really good question. It depends on the size of the brand. It really depends on the size of your organization and how agile you are. So as a brand, you will know how agile your organization is. So some brands are very agile, some brands are less agile, but you will probably know that have a feeling for how quick things move within your organization. So that internal process can take anywhere from two months to a year subject to how big the organization is. And then when you then start to build that relationship, when you start to then move out to retailers, again, as I sort of indicated, you've got the three types of retailers, you put them in three levels. So you've got the foundational up to the leadership. So some of those might be real long-term game plans. So it might be that you've got a game plan to work with Walmart as an example, and you're not a very big brand.

(38:06):

So actually, although they're a big retailer, because you're such a small brand, that might have to be like an 18 month joint business plan process with lots of different meetings to be able to get you there. But a relationship doesn't have to be a joint business plan to start with, it can just be, it can be a foundational relationship, but you've got your eye and you're sharing the longer term goals. And that's why I said in that insight sheet, it's about analyzing every retailer but personalizing it to your brand because obviously there's brands here today that are going to be so many different sizes from regional one to global ones. So there isn't a one size fits all. But what I would say is what we do at Cognitive Union is we share a now next long action plan. So now you would then put timescales around it. So now might be within the next three months, next might be within the next 12 months long, might be within the next 36 months, but that action plan can be used for different organizations. So for a smaller brand, it might be now is one month, next is two months, and long is three months as an example. So hopefully that answers your question.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:18):

Yes, thank you. So we've got a question in the chat around examples of JBP templates or decks. So I know you can't share those right now, but I'm curious, have you seen that brands have their own templates or retailers have their own templates? And if so, can you just maybe talk about the key elements of them that you've seen?

Lynsey Sweales (39:39):

Yeah, so obviously I can't share them for obvious reasons. What I would say is there isn't, again, there isn't a one, I'm not trying to give you a political willy answer, but there isn't a one size fits all, but it is focused on those key questions that I shared. So what are their challenges, what are their objectives, the JBP insight sheet and from there subject to what you want to achieve. So thinking about that slide I shared earlier, I'll just flick back on it if I may. So this one here it is thinking about developing that business plan and thinking about what are the categories, what is the strategy? Is it about creating brand awareness? So what do we need to do and what does that process look like? And some organizations I've worked in that's been very much campaign focused and some have been very much traditional joint business plan focus, thinking about how we can grow market share and what that looks like. And it can be like 20 pages long, but fundamentally it's focused on the key drivers, which is around this here and this bit here. So mutually objectives and what are those objectives? So are they growing market share, are they growing revenue, what data points do you have? What are the challenges you have? And it's about creating an action out of each one of these and out of those actions can then be created a joint business plan with the key elements on it.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (41:03):

Perfect. Thank you Lynsey. All right, we have two more questions. So in terms of insights like using data and insights for joint business planning, do you usually see that brands are using store level data that's available on the retailer websites? And what kinds of data are they pulling in for insights?

Lynsey Sweales (41:22):

So retailers and data is a very interesting question, isn't it? Because we heard in Gregory Murray's podcast, and I love the fact that one of his clients was so bold to say, if you don't give me the data going to shop, not going to work with you anymore. Amazon, which many retailers can't do. So in example in the GCC countries, I work with a big brand and they're like, there's a retailer over there. I'm like, they have 30% in the market. So you can't say, well, I don't have the data, I'm not working with you. So just coming back to your question, Lauren, in terms of data insights, it will really depend on if it might be that you've got a global joint business plan with a retailer and brand that is global. It might be that you start regionally, it might be that you start country level.

(42:06):

So again, that data can really depend on how you focus those relationships. What I would suggest is you pilot it regionally first. So we worked with an organization where we piloted it in emea, so we upskilled their e-commerce and general managers in the EMEA regions, we upskilled them on joint business planning. We got buy-in from the regional directors, and then we started to pilot it with just a couple of retailers to see how it worked. And the general managers loved it at country level. So there was the French team and the UK team, and it worked really well. But obviously what a joint business plan is in the UK might be very different to what it is in Dubai, for example. So again, every retailer is different. And so what you could do is you could work out actually what retailers do we have global coverage with? What ones do we have regional coverage with? And that might then also help you assess and prioritize at what level you work with a retailer and how that gets prioritized internally and externally.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (43:07):

And then actually transitions really well into the next question, which is after breaking down internal silos, do you have any tips on tackling silos externally at the retailer in terms of who to talk to and who to collaborate with? That's a hard question. I don't even know if what I would say to that other than build relationships. But what are your thoughts?

Lynsey Sweales (43:27):

There's lots of good questions and I don't want to come back to dating. I haven't been on the dating game for a long, long time, but I know when we chatted about it, Lauren, we sort of like, that is

Lauren Livak Gilbert (43:36):

How I met my husband. So yes.

Lynsey Sweales (43:37):

Yeah, if that relationships, you're not just going to go in and go for and go for the big question, it's about building relationships with the right people and taking a step back slightly on average in terms of buying teams or relationships, there's on average like seven people, seven key stakeholders within an organization are involved in a decision now. So you have to build relationships, understand who they are, so just getting to know them, getting to understand the structure of that organization. I know from speaking to you, Lauren, that many organizations, like every organization have a different structure. So that in lies can't just, as I said, you can't wave a magic wand and say, right, this is the approach. You can use the joint business plan insight sheet to really help you create a standing block. But then your mission within an organization is to say, okay, who are the key influences within an organization?

(44:34):

Who are the key people that make the decision? So it might be the CFO is a really important person that actually holds a lot of the purse strings and makes decisions. So how can we influence that person? And it might be that it isn't about business. It might be through looking on LinkedIn or I don't want to say stalking, but having a look at what that person's interested in. Is there research, research, let's call it research, interested in certain things or they're attending an event. So it might be that you drop a message and you say, oh, it looks like you had a great customer experience event. Whatever event you're at would be lovely to meet for a coffee. They love coffee or might like wine or food. So it's doing a bit of research to build that relationship and sort of collaborate with key members of your team to create that structure and almost, it's almost like account-based marketing as such with retailers and brands to think about how we can build those relationships. I love that. And

Lauren Livak Gilbert (45:29):

Then just a quick teaser, we're doing a research project from the DSI around joint business planning, and one of the things that we heard from our interviews was know your audience, the way you would know your consumer selling your product. So if the specific retailer you're working with has a specific initiative, make sure you bring that up and make sure you talk about that and make sure that you're weaving that into your conversations depending on who's in the room. So I think a lot of it is taking the skills that we all have and a lot of what we do, but just applying it in a different way and building those relationships and thinking about the retailer also as your consumer in a way so that you can make sure that you are having the conversations as mutually beneficial for everyone.

Lynsey Sweales (46:12):

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a really good point, Lauren, because whether it's, you call it account-based marketing or that data insight sheet, joint business plan sheet, obviously if you know their innovations, then you can bring, it's like this a crib sheet that you can then bring into conversations and say, oh, here's a note on this. Loved how you did your test campaign with Uber as an example, or how's that going? I can see you've done a test with Bacardi as an example. Thank you all so much for

Lauren Livak Gilbert (46:34):

Attending, and Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your

Lynsey Sweales (46:36):

Insights. Thank you all for your time, and thank you Lauren for having me.

Peter Crosby (46:40):

Thanks again to Lindsay for letting us repurpose her wise counsel for our podcast audience, for more wisdom, hop on over to digitalshelfinstitute.org and become a member. Thanks for being part of our community.