LIVE FROM CANNES LIONS: Navigating the Amazon Canvas with Jeff Cohen, Principal Evangelist at Amazon Ads

Transcript

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Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:00):

Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:16):

Hello Everyone. Lauren Livak Gilbert here from the Digital Shelf Institute. I am live at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity, where there's a huge focus on commerce and retail media. This year we're surrounded by brands, retailers, and thought leaders from all over the world. And I had the pleasure of interviewing Jeff Cohen, principal evangelists at Amazon ads. Jeff dives into the Amazon Canvas, how brands should be approaching the suite of options and some of the new and exciting things coming.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:47):

Hi, Jeff. Hey, how's it going? Good morning. Good morning. We are

Jeff Cohen (00:50):

Happy Cannes.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:51):

Happy Cannes. Yeah, we're in the south of France live with unpacking the digital shelf with Jeff Cohen, principal evangelist at Amazon Ads. So thank you so much for chatting with me at 8:00 AM in the morning and after a long day. Appreciate

Jeff Cohen (01:05):

It. Yeah. Well, this is what we do at can people think, they see all the things that happen and all the photos to get posted and all the parties that are attended. But we also wake up early and start business meetings and talk about the industry and chart new ventures, so that's part of the show as well. Yeah,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (01:25):

The behind the scenes, we're in a podcast studio on the Riviera right by the ocean, so really excited to dive into some great content for our brand stay. So there's so much to talk about when it comes to Amazon ads. We have a lot of different topics that we can dive into, but what I'd love to start with is what's happening now versus two years ago and what should brands really focus on around Amazon ads? Yeah,

Jeff Cohen (01:48):

So when I think of Amazon ads two years ago, I think of us being really locked into metrics like tacos and roas and ACOs, all terms that have kind of been invented by the creation of Amazon ads, but they're all based on last touch attribution. And that was really, I'd say how we thought of Amazon and we thought of Amazon really as a destination specifically for shopping, and we thought of it really for conversion focused type of activities. And I think one of the big evolutions that has occurred over the last two years has been the growth of what we internally call the Amazon canvas, which is how the different properties of Amazon come together to provide brand building opportunities to reach new audiences, to expand and allow brands to take the signals that they have from both shopping or from Thursday night football and streaming or from ring cameras or from Alexa, and use those to identify potential new audiences to expose their brand to.

(03:08):

And that's kind of moved us into new metrics like new to brand or measuring video success. And if we look at the growth over those two years of the new metrics that have become available to brands through search query reports or any of the other ad metrics, as well as the ability to measure all of that through a tool like a MC, we've had a pretty great growth over those two years that's allowing brands to think about Amazon as a brand building activity and not just a performance based activity. And so internally, externally and internally we call it going from commerce to content. So how do we go from the shopping activities to driving to the content of your brand? And if you think about Amazon and their growth, we now have ad units for brands who don't sell on Amazon, we have the ability to send ads to your external sites. And all of these things are part of that growth that are allowing these brands to have this expansion.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (04:20):

And the canvas is coming at a perfect time when omnichannel is the main focus for brands, right? You have to be on every channel, you have to have a more cohesive story. And you talked about measurement. I feel like that is a hot topic for retail media. So old metrics, new metrics. In your opinion, what is the sweet spot or combo of metrics that maybe you should think about as a brand who's trying to navigate what success looks like in retail

Jeff Cohen (04:45):

Media? If I was to wear a T-shirt, it would say, it depends because most always

Lauren Livak Gilbert (04:49):

In commerce,

Jeff Cohen (04:49):

Right? Because every question that's asked of you, it's like, it depends what are you trying to do? And I think what's amazing is that we can now answer a lot more of those questions. And so we used to be able to say, well, it depends, oh, we can't measure that, or it depends, and we, we can get signals that point us in the right direction, but today we've gotten to the, it depends and then it depends lead you to a more specific type of measurement activity. So depending on, I have this kind of theory, not this theory, but we've been talking in this industry for a while about how the path to purchase is no longer linear.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:29):

It is not, I like to call it the squiggle,

Jeff Cohen (05:31):

The squiggle, and everybody's kind of agreed that the path isn't linear. But in the same regard of talking about the path not being linear, we still talk about a funnel

Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:41):

All the time,

Jeff Cohen (05:42):

All the time. It's like right, the funnel, I don't want to really upset any great marketers of our time that agreed the funnel

Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:52):

Has

Jeff Cohen (05:52):

Shifted, right? I don't need Peter Drucker coming after me by to disrupt any of his dins, but I think the funnel has shifted, and I think what I've been sharing with brands is that they need to shift their thinking of the funnel to almost the way they've thought about things in store. And so the easiest way to describe it is that if I am going to a store and I'm going to buy a board game for my kids, I can walk into the store. I know my store, I know where the board games are, I can walk right back to the back of the store and I can look at a wall and pick out the brand of the board game that I was looking for. But if I don't know what board game I want, then I'm in the general search of board games and I'm looking at the whole wall looking left to, to pick what I want.

(06:39):

But if I don't know that I want a board game, I just want a gift for a 12 to 13-year-old, I'm now walking around the whole toy section, but I could also venture off into sports and outdoors, but I could also be at the store and I could be looking at shopping for a 12 to 13 year old's birthday party, and I could walk past an end cap and I could see a board game and think, oh, I bet the kids would really be excited to play that game. And so that's all shopping strategies that we're familiar with. You're either in market, you're in category, seasonality, right? Seasonality, you're brand shopping. So that's the way we need to start thinking about the funnel as opposed to thinking about conversion and awareness and consideration. And then depending on what we're trying to drive, there are different ad units that will help to drive those different types of metrics.

(07:38):

And so video for instance, we know about the rise of video, it's been talked about for a long time. The general stats that are out there indicate that video creates a better engagement with your customer. It helps 'em understand your products. And at that time we were just saying, okay, we're going to use video. Well, today we can actually see our video creating a stronger in-market audience for us. And we can look at things like how long do they look at the video? What action are they taking afterwards? And we can actually start to optimize in to say, oh, this video isn't working. Let's try another video layer on top of it, ai, which can help us to scale that video production. And now all of a sudden we have solutions to look for new audiences, reach new audiences, and then measure the effectiveness of those new audiences. We're

Lauren Livak Gilbert (08:32):

Finally in an age where I think we're getting an insight from the data that we can actually live put into the strategy. To your point,

Jeff Cohen (08:38):

Yeah, I think for a while the data was giving us insights and we were looking at the data, but now we can turn those insights into actions. And I think the best practice brands, the ones that we want to model ourselves after, are really finding ways to at these signals and then identify new audiences based on the signals. And you can use tools like a MC and you can use audience builder tools to automate some of these processes. And what it's allowing you to do is identify the new audience and then scale to reach that audience and then measure the action you're looking for that audience to take as opposed to just looking at everything holistically and just saying, what's my ROEs?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (09:21):

And you said the most famous two letter word ai, so I have to dive in and ask a question. So let's think about the occasions. You were talking about the board game or something. I need a Valentine's Day gift for my husband with ai. How do you see search changing for occasions like that where maybe you're searching for a Valentine's gift for your husband and what comes up are chocolates and teddy bears and different categories pulled together. How do you see that shifting?

Jeff Cohen (09:46):

I think we're in the early days of that, and I heard somebody actually say this on stage yesterday, which was like she was saying something to the effect that she had looked back at her predictions for another thing five years ago, and she realized how many of those predictions were wrong. And it's so hard for us to really understand how something like AI will be used three, five years from now. So all the pundits are trying to make recommendations. And I guess the analogy that I use is that we all have cell phones and we all carry cell phones in our pocket, but 30 years ago, if you had told me you would have this cell phone in your pocket, you would've, and it was so powerful and it could do all the things that it could do, you'd be looked at like you were crazy.

(10:29):

So I think we have a long way to go. Now, with that being said, I think companies like Amazon are really on the forefront of what some of this looks like. You can see what we're doing in retail with Rufuss and how Rufuss is starting to test that shopper experience by offering the ability to give common search and the ability to, or maybe natural language search for somebody that's asking and use things like reviews or FAQs to try to help to bring that shopper experience. But I think we have a long way to go, and I don't think that means that anyone's ahead or anyone's behind. I just think that at Amazon we are going to continue to consider the customer first and really work backwards from that shopping experience and ensure that the customer is getting to their path to purchase in the most frictionless way. Because we've spent so many years working on frictionless commerce, the last thing we want to do is add friction to commerce. And I think that what it means for brands, I like to keep it really basic. Before I joined Amazon and I ran a tech company, I would always be kind of baffled by how many brands didn't fill out their catalog.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (11:53):

Oh my goodness. Yes.

Jeff Cohen (11:54):

Right?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (11:55):

Taxonomy, content, logistics.

Jeff Cohen (11:56):

Yes. So it's like, I mean, your company was built off of this concept, and that is still the basics today. I agree. Because that's what ultimately is going to feed the engine to make the decisions of what's coming up. And so we can talk about all the UCG user generated content that's out there and that's being created. And I do believe that's going to have an impact in this because it's valuable content. But you as a brand still have the ability to own a big piece of this channel. And again, I'm shocked at how many brands don't own this channel correctly. They're not ensuring that all of your fields are filled out that you can fill out and

Lauren Livak Gilbert (12:42):

Best in class content, just imagery, descriptions, titles.

Jeff Cohen (12:46):

And I think what AI is leading us to is that your images can become more valuable to the search because AI can actually identify what's in the image and then it can say, oh, okay, well this is something sporty because they're showing images of sports. Somebody in this picture is sweating. So this is a product that's used when sweating and those all become additional data points. It's not anything you've actually entered in. And I am not an expert in ai, so I'm not trying to explain how this stuff works, but I just think of things logically. And so as a brand, the first thing that I want to do is I want to ensure that all of my catalog fields are filled out that they're correct, that they're accurate, and that goes across my whole catalog of products a hundred percent. Then I want to look back at my hero products and I want to be hyper-focused on their PDP pages, their a plus content. And then I want to look at my more category type pages in my stores, and I want to be using my stores as my way to tell my brand story. Because what we're seeing with a lot of shopper behavior is that you see sponsored brands, you can now click into the store, you go into the store, you can do product discovery. Within product discovery, you're driving additional sales,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (14:03):

The lines are blurring.

Jeff Cohen (14:04):

And I think it's really cool that Amazon has created this safe space for your brand that you can own and you can manage. And brands need to put that as part of their mix, and they need to be thinking about their stores in a way where they can be delivering the content based on the season or the micro season that you were talking about before. And that's I guess how it all kind of comes back into a circle that will ultimately feed the algorithms and the databases that run those searches that will evolve over time.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (14:44):

So let's talk about brands specifically. We've kind of shifted from more of a performance marketing to more of a brand marketing approach. It was all about the numbers, and now we're remembering that we need to build brands. And it's really important because I feel like AI will bring brands to baseline, right? Everybody can get that content, have accurate data, but then how do you differentiate yourself? So can you talk a little bit about that shift from performance marketing to brand and the balance between the two?

Jeff Cohen (15:10):

Yeah, I think there's a shift maybe on Amazon in the thinking of using Amazon as a brand building tool, but I think most of the brands, most CPG brands, most digitally native brands have always thought of brand building as part of their activity. And I think now they can think of Amazon as part of that journey to build that brand. So I don't think we're introducing anything new. We're just entering in a new vehicle for them to be using. In that same kind of vein, I think that part of what you need to be thinking about is learn to blur or maybe unblur the line that there's this hard line between brand building activity and performance-based activity and understand that there's a correlation between the activities that happen on both sides. And I think very, if we go way to the right, and we go very traditional of brand building and linear tv, it was about reach and exposure and that's all it was measured was how much reach did I have, how much exposure that I have? And then if you go all the way to the left, and I don't maybe the right and left or flipped whatever

Lauren Livak Gilbert (16:23):

Scale you'd like

Jeff Cohen (16:24):

To choose, here you go all the way to the left and you've got conversion based activity and it's really hardcore ACOs, tacos type of metrics. Well, brands now need to sit somewhere in the middle, and that means that you will have activities that will be very conversion focused and you will have activities that'll be very brand focused, but ultimately the brands have this opportunity to build this engagement with an audience. And I think when we talked about the Amazon Canvas at the beginning, Amazon offers this unique set of offerings that whether it's content through Prime video, whether it's the unique experience through Fire TV or any of the other properties that are owned and operated by Amazon, and then you can actually layer in our third party supply and our third party supply is the same content that you'll get from other third party supply companies. But the difference is you can use and overlay your Amazon audiences into that third party supply and you can bring it into your frequency measurement and you can bring it back to your measurement. And those all become really powerful ways for brands to start to understand what their impact both on and off Amazon are and what that return on investment ultimately looks like. Because even though we want to away from a roas, we know that ultimately it's part of the numbers that everybody comes back to look at.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (17:56):

If we go back to your, it depends T-shirt, the thing that I've been hearing as a theme across cans so far or day one is focusing on the jobs to be done and focusing on what are you trying to achieve first? Rather than just saying, Hey, I want to use AI or I want to use a MC. And I think that's a perfect example of what you just shared about you can use all of that data to inform your decision better understand your consumer, and have more of a targeted approach rather than this broad brush stroke to say, Hey, I think I might be doing this.

Jeff Cohen (18:24):

And the thing with AI is that, and even A MC, they both are, you have to know the question you want to ask. And so one of the questions asked to me yesterday was how much I use ai? And I was talking about how I've gotten really engaged with people to learn more about prompting within ai, because AI is all about the question you ask is the answer you get. And so the more sophisticated you can ask a question, the more direct you can get an answer, and then you can train AI to answer in a certain way. And so you're starting to see things like we just released, we just released a partnership with Canva. And within that partnership with Canva, you can use the Canva tool to, they have an enterprise version of their tool, and within that you can set brand guidelines for your brand so that your team is using the right colors, the right logos, things like that.

(19:31):

But then you can also tie it into your Amazon content and then you can use their AI to resize images. You can use their AI to generate new images all based on the rules that you've set within the Canva tool runs through pre moderation and then spits back into the Amazon creative asset library. And that's, I think, where we're finding efficiency and effectiveness of AI starting to drive some of the things that we're doing. And then Amazon has their own tools built into the ad council for AI generation to create additional images for you and change those images seasonally. And it's developing some new technology around resizing and things as well. And so that's where we're starting to see this, where AI will start to do some of the activities that we need done to allow us to play in fields that we haven't played before.

(20:31):

But when you get into the natural language search and even A MC, then it becomes, okay, great. Do I know what I want to do with it? Do I know how I want to use it? Do I know what outputs I'm looking for it? And the suggestion I typically brands around that is that's what you have to start with when you start the conversation. And so when you're looking at something like prime day's coming up, it's a great example. I have to start my planning for Prime day by understanding what my output goals are that I want for prime day and how I'm going to measure the success of that. And so part of that goal might be sales, it probably should be sales, but part of that also might be building audiences for me to grow for a new product launch that's coming up after prime day. Or I'm also really big in back to school.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (21:26):

How do you pull it forward?

Jeff Cohen (21:27):

And so we always talked about lead in tent pole and lead out type of campaigns, but we can actually start to think of, okay, great, I'm going to use this campaign to set up and launch the next campaign. And if you go back to again, brand building and traditional brand building, that's how brand building worked. You go out and you create a big audience, and then that audience eventually funnels down to make the acquisition. And so I don't know if I answered your question or if I've kind of rambled on here. You

Lauren Livak Gilbert (22:00):

Did. No, you

Jeff Cohen (22:00):

Definitely did. I think I kind of

Lauren Livak Gilbert (22:01):

Got you. And I love the Canva example because that's a very tangible example of how you can use AI for scale and efficiency. And I think it unlocks a lot of creativity, one from a scale perspective, but also it frees up time to do the creative element of it rather than more of the remedial tasks that we just don't have time to,

Jeff Cohen (22:20):

Or you literally don't have the staff to be able to do it, and you're

Lauren Livak Gilbert (22:23):

Not going to have that many resources, right? Teams aren't going to be able to add 15, 20 people.

Jeff Cohen (22:28):

Correct. And what that's allowing you to do is it's allowing you to have content for 15 events in a year versus five events in a year. You were already scaled for five, but now you can scale for 15. And that just makes the experience better for everybody. And that's what we want to do. We want to make the shopping experience better by making our content more relevant, which will, I guess potentially, I don't want to guarantee anything but make our ads more effective

Lauren Livak Gilbert (23:01):

Putting the consumer at the center. Yes, always. And I think that is a challenge for brands internally sometimes, because you get stuck in your silos of your teams and you're focused on your specific goals, but making sure the shopper at the end of the day is your focus. Correct. Well center everything in every way.

Jeff Cohen (23:17):

And I mean, I know you hear about it come out of Amazon a lot, right? It's at the forefront of almost every presentation any of our leadership ever give. But once you come to Amazon and you're here, you actually see how it's applied every day, and it really is truly applied in a more unique way than what I've seen at any of the companies I worked at before. And it really is grounded in what's best for the customer, how do we drive to make that customer experience the first and foremost that's on our mind in every decision that we're making.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (23:56):

Let's jump back to a MC for a second. So are there any elements of a MC that maybe are underutilized that brands should be thinking about as they're starting to adopt

Jeff Cohen (24:05):

It? Yeah, so A MC, let's just kind of go back to the basics for the people's maybe are like, wait, what's a MC? What's

Lauren Livak Gilbert (24:12):

Another acronym?

Jeff Cohen (24:14):

So A MC is Amazon Marketing Cloud. It was created several years back really to kind of solve this problem of how do we start to create a center measurement solution that's privacy safe. And so it sits in what's called a clean room. Again, I'm not a clean room expert, but a clean room is allowing you to bring your content, your data in, your data signals in, and create a place for aggregated reports that doesn't have any customer information. And so you can't ever go into a MC and be like, who are my customers in this zip code that buy this product?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (24:52):

Where's Lauren in New York?

Jeff Cohen (24:54):

None of that information will spit out of a MC, but what you can see is you can see these aggregated signals that are happening that allow you to determine patterns. And the first I'd say iteration that a lot of brands were doing was path to purchase. And so path to purchase was kind of this unlock that a lot of brands were looking for to understand how many ads was somebody seen, and then what was the impact of that. So when somebody saw just a sponsored product ad, the conversion rate was X, but when they saw sponsored products, sponsored brand and sponsored display conversion was y. And there's quite a few articles that have been posted by many of our partners on LinkedIn showing that you can find some of these, not unique, but some of these patterns that say, wow, when I run XY versus X, Y, Z, my return on investment is three x, and it's allowing brands to then double down on the paths that are working.

(25:55):

I'd say that was kind of like the table stakes that people should be kind of using a MC for today. It really is a strong measurement tool pulling out these aggregated datas, understanding the path to purchase. A lot of these are canned reports that you can either get through our report query library or through any of our tech providers that provide this and they have their series of reports. When we take that to the next level, that's when you start getting into how do you use these audiences to find new audiences? How do you take these insights and turn them into actions? How do you build new DSP campaigns to find the audience that matches your peak performance audiences? And then how do you measure the efficiency of things like streaming television or prime video? As you bring that back into the mix, which used to be very upper funnel activity, you can now see when somebody sees streaming TV and they also see a DSP ad, they need to see 3D SP ads before they are more likely to take a purchase. And you can then set your frequency rates. And so that insight into action I think is where the more advanced brands are going today with A MC. And there's still a lot of additional opportunity that's out there. And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of what a MC can do for brands. And it's so exciting to hear from brands what they're doing and how they're using it to really expand their business.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (27:35):

And in a world where profitability is such a big focus for retailers and for brands, those kind of insights make your dollars work better, faster, longer in your perspective of your strategy overall. So I feel like it's a first mover advantage for brands who are using a MC to really fundamentally understand their consumer and how things are working together.

Jeff Cohen (27:54):

Yeah, it's funny. Before I came to Amazon, I would've be like, okay, well this is table stakes and here's where you're at and here's where you're falling behind. And I've tried to not do that when I've come here because for one reason, we have such a large range of brands that we work with that do so many different things, but when it comes down to it, I think there's, it depends. We've got

Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:14):

To get these T-shirts, I'm going to do

Jeff Cohen (28:16):

It. There's different times that things work for your business and a MC may have been something that you peaked at a year or two ago and you didn't do it. It's not too late to get in. There's even things like Amazon Post that maybe you've ignored, and I'd say, man, you should raise that up on your list and sponsor brand video ads, all these things. Amazon has so many different properties and opportunities for you to expand, and you just have to kind of figure out when they work for your brand properly because each brand sits at a different point in their life cycle

Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:55):

Or digital maturity category. Correct.

Jeff Cohen (28:57):

And then you take that down to the product level, right? Because each product could sit within that. And I think what's awesome is that that all just means opportunity for your brand. And so if you're listening to this and you're a little bit lost on what does this mean and how do I use it for my particular brand, your action item, I love giving people action items. I love it. Takeaways, that's key focus. Yeah. Your action item should be to talk to your service provider, whether it be your AE or your A at Amazon, and ask them like, Hey, what can Amazon Marketing Cloud do for me? Or whether it be the tech provider or the agency that you're working with, really push them to help you get some of that information. And as I always say, if all else fails, come and talk to me on LinkedIn. I

Lauren Livak Gilbert (29:41):

Love it. I love it. And you mentioned Amazon Post, there's Prime video. Can you talk about maybe some of the underutilized pieces of Amazon that brands might not know about? You said we should elevate Amazon posts. I'd love to hear more about that. So what are your

Jeff Cohen (29:53):

Thoughts? I think we've covered a lot of this. I think we've covered a lot of this throughout this whole podcast, so I'll maybe just kind of recap. Perfect PDP pages,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (30:05):

Content, content, content that's

Jeff Cohen (30:06):

Talking about, right? I dunno why I'm telling you this.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (30:09):

I eat, sleep and breathe

Jeff Cohen (30:10):

This every day. You guys pioneered this Amazon stores. I think you should look through your category and see how stores are being used within your category, within your competitors, and maybe what types of changes you should be making peek at those stores during different events. Again, the events that impact you and your business. Then I think post lead to follows posts are free. I always say they're free, free, free, free, free, free. And so there's another

Lauren Livak Gilbert (30:45):

T-shirt maybe.

Jeff Cohen (30:46):

So play with it, experiment with it, bring in your how you learn, use your user generated content, bring that into your post. If your posts are working for you, you can now boost your post, which turn your post. I want to be very clear, you still have posts and the posts are still free, but you can convert your high performing posts into sponsored brand ads, video or images that allow you to then use that imagery to expand and to basically buy into more audiences that it could be working for. Then after that, you've got stores, you've got posts, then you have sponsored brand video. Then how those are all working for you to tell your story. You can be using your video for free on your product detail page and your a plus content. You can be using your video within your posts. So there's so much value in content creation today of where you can start to place these things.

(31:52):

And then there's the whole measurement side of things and really kind of understanding how your brand is using A MC, what metrics are most important to you and your brand, and using those to build out your weekly business reports or your monthly business reports or your quarterly business reports, or however you look at your different KPI metrics. And then, not to overwhelm you, but I also love to remind people of the overall Amazon canvas and think about how your consumers, what does a day in the life of your consumer look like and what are they interacting with their, they're spending a lot of time on devices. They're spending a lot of time on digital media. So where are they and how are they doing that and where are they shopping? And how can you best create a media mix that ties in with them to drive the actions that you want for your brand,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (32:50):

Putting your consumer hat on at the end of the day. I love it, Jeff, I feel like we could talk for hours, but we have to finish up. So thank you so much for all this great insight, for the great takeaways for brands, for any brands who are interested in connecting with you, they connect with you on LinkedIn. You have awesome articles and blogs that come out. Thank you. So I encourage everyone to follow you, but thank you so much for doing this podcast live in Cannes.

Jeff Cohen (33:10):

That's right. We're here. We're here. Don't you see the Riviera behind

Lauren Livak Gilbert (33:13):

Us? Yes, you can. If you were watching the video, check out all the beautiful views. But thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Jeff Cohen (33:19):

Thank you.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (33:20):

Thanks again to Jeff for giving us an inside look at the Amazon canvas and some great things for brands to look into. For more great interviews and content, be sure to sign up to be a member of the Digital Shelf Institute. Thanks for listening, and thank you for being a part of our community.