Become a Beloved Brand, with Andrea Leigh, Founder & CEO, Allume Group

Transcript

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Peter Crosby (00:00):

Welcome to unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age. Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Every quarter, the e-Commerce Education Consultancy Allume Group consolidates the output of expert conversations, annual reports, and the latest data to create their Allume Insider report or air. It's chock a block full of the most current insights into the present and future of e-commerce. Andrea Leigh, founder and CEO of Allume Group Rejoins the podcast with the takeaways from Q3 based on their research. Welcome back to the podcast, Andrea for this Allume Insider report. So happy to have you here.

Andrea Leigh (00:52):

Thanks for having me.

Peter Crosby (00:54):

Oh my gosh. You have had such a run of reports this year. The first quarter was based on authenticity, trust, and then trust and loyalty, and now the final report of the year is focused on advocacy. Tell us why you landed on that as an area of focus, how it fits into what you were seeing going on in the industry.

Andrea Leigh (01:17):

Yeah, so like you said, Peter, last three quarters we talked about authenticity, trust, and loyalty and how building out those components as a brand or as a retailer are really relevant and important for winning today's shopper. But then we thought we still have one more quarter left in the year, so what comes next? What's even better than a really loyal shopper? And we posed this question to a group of senior e-commerce executives at a speaking session and what they said was, what comes next? What's even better than having a loyal shopper is being a beloved brand and thinking about how do you turn consumers into advocates? How do you get them to evangelize for your product and becomes sort of a part of the routine? And someone said, and I loved this term, brand insistence. So for example, if your product is not in stock at the store, let's say it's a grocery product like Cheerios or something, the customer just walks away, they don't buy something else that's being a beloved brand.

(02:32):

So we got this last concept from this group of senior executives and this idea of having shoppers be advocates on our behalf I think is really critical for the purchase path. 37% of shoppers say they discover items they bought the first time through friends and family. So this kind of word of mouth promotion, super invaluable for shoppers. And on the flip side, the average dissatisfied customer tells nine to 15 people about a bad experience. And so we really want to make sure that if we're getting people to shoppers to talk about our products, that they're advocating for them in a really positive way. And we like all of our reports, we broke it down into sort of three areas that brands can focus on to become a beloved brand.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (03:25):

And Andrea, I have to say, I feel like so much at a deep personal level that nine to 10 people thing, if something bad happens with a brand or something, I will just be like, don't use it. It was a terrible experience. But at the same time, if it was amazing, I tell everyone and their mother, right? Because it's just such an amazing brand and I want to kind of preach it from the rooftop. So it is kind of a double-edged sword there where you have to be careful how you're using the advocacy to your advantage or disadvantage. So

Andrea Leigh (03:54):

Yes, absolutely.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (03:56):

I loved that example. So first component of advocacy that you identified is delight me. Tell us

Andrea Leigh (04:02):

What that means. Me. Okay. So first, what is advocacy? Google defines it as to publicly recommend or support. And so if you want to think about how you turn shoppers into advocates kind of breaks down to these three things. So the first ones delight me. So this is really about I I feel like in every one of our reports we kind of beat the drum of brilliant basics. You have to get the brilliant basics. So this is about having an exceptional customer experience, having exceptional product quality, having exceptional other types of experiences. So this idea of brilliant basics plus maybe innovative or novel products, you have to be standout in either design or performance or have really tailored recommendations for shoppers, not necessarily personalized. I think we have been mean coming out of grocery shop this last couple weeks ago, I think we heard a lot about personalization. We're actually going to spend, I think next year we're going to spend the whole year in each of the quarters on different aspects of personalization.

Peter Crosby (05:02):

Oh my gosh,

Andrea Leigh (05:02):

That's great. Yeah, because such a hot topic right now, but I think it's really misunderstood. Shoppers want relevant offers and merchandising. They don't necessarily need personalized offers and merchandising. And so this idea of tailored recommendations for the shoppers, so that example you gave last quarter, Lauren about the, what is it? Natively,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:24):

The skincare crows that had the shampoo and then I used their skincare and I've continued to use it. So yeah, they offer it for

Andrea Leigh (05:31):

Free. Exactly. So they sent you a sample of a new product launch, which was such a great example of a tailored recommendation, but not necessarily personalized. They sent that offer to everyone or maybe providing unexpected rewards like that or exclusive offers. But going back to the nine to 15 shoppers that tell people about a bad experience, the idea of focusing on delighting the shopper doesn't mean you have to be perfect as a brand or a retailer. So it's not about being perfect. And I love this quote from a Qualtrics report that we used in our research. He said, Leoni Brown says people who had a bad experience with a brand but the brand fixed it are more loyal customers than people who never had a problem in the first place. And that's really because it involves trust and solving something for a shopper is a great way to build trust. So isn't that interesting? Love shoppers are more loyal to brands who they've had a problem with them that have fixed it than brands they never had a problem with at all.

Peter Crosby (06:33):

So you're telling that our listeners should plan for something to break so that they can apologize and get better advocacy. Am I reading that correctly?

Andrea Leigh (06:44):

It's definitely a strategy, Peter. I don't know that it's the one I would employ, but it's a way to go about that.

Peter Crosby (06:49):

I'm not ahead of digital commerce.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (06:52):

Wait, Andrew. I feel like whenever we have these podcasts, I always have these amazing examples that just something just happened to me around this. So I was traveling for work and I have this travel backpack that I love. I've had it for four years. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing this correctly, monos Monos, it's a brand. And I was leaving for the airport and the zipper broke, so that was a whole nother story. I had to switch bags, but I emailed them and I was like, listen, my zipper broke. I love this bag. And they're like, it's not under warranty, but we're going to send you a new one because you're a loyal customer and you've purchased several times and so here's a new bag. So would've been, initially I was really upset, right, because the zipper broke on a really expensive bag, but they made it right. And now to me that experience is so much stronger because they made it right. They sent me a new product and I'm going to buy a suitcase from them because I know that they'll back their product. So I think that resonates really well with probably a lot of people that are listening.

Andrea Leigh (07:50):

I couldn't agree more, Lauren, and I think it even touches on another trend around this idea of slow consumption where shoppers are kind of now that products cost more than they used to and Paychex aren't going as far as they used to because of housing and grocery costs. Shoppers are being more cautious about what they bring into their homes and this idea of slowing your consumption and focusing on quality goods and services is a way to do that and it's more sustainable. So I think there's also this movement of shoppers saying we don't know how to choose products that are more sustainable than others anymore because it's really difficult to see through all of the claims and where things are sourced, but the thing we can do is just buy fewer of them. And so knowing that someone stands behind the product I think is really critical. Going back to that idea of quality, 53% of shoppers prioritize quality of a product first when making a purchase over price or anything else. And it's a challenge online because that's one of the top concerns for consumers. 44% have concerns with buying things online because of the quality and figuring out ways to back that up, like your experience. Don't worry if there's a fail safe in place, if this ends up being something that doesn't meet your expectations, you can send it back.

Peter Crosby (09:18):

Sorry, where do you put Temu and Amazon's new sort of temu competitor. They're not going for advocacy or loyalty, it's a whole different game. They're not building brand, they're just trying to sell some stuff and ship it. Is that where you sort of put that category of stuff

Andrea Leigh (09:45):

And it's not to be dismissed. I mean those are really fast growing pockets of growth on the internet and I think I saw something recently that said something about how third party and marketplaces are growing a lot faster than first party wholesale retail and it's certainly coming from a lot of places, but I think if you look at what Temu and Sheen are doing, they're really trying to commoditize product categories that in the past were not commodities, right? They're turning fashion into a commodity, they're turning household goods into commodities. Whereas you used to maybe only buy a Honeywell fan or air conditioner for your house or your apartment because you knew that brand and you trusted it and that was really all that was available to you. Were nationally distributed brands. Now you have all these choices of unbranded commoditized products and I think there's a time and a place for those products. We can't all afford to pay for the highest quality things all the time, and so we have to make choices as consumers. But I think what they're really focusing on is the commoditization in primarily of fashion. And I think it's coming at, I mean I think they saw a lot of growth. I think that it's at odds with some of the consumer trends right now, so it'll be really interesting to see, at least in the us so it'll be really interesting to see how that plays out over the next three to five years.

Peter Crosby (11:22):

Yeah, fascinating really is,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (11:24):

I'm wondering if it correlates at all to income level or area in the country too, because I think that also with the economy and where we are, people are struggling in different ways in different economic brackets. So it'd be interesting, maybe this is a part two of when we come back and talk about this, what that would look

Andrea Leigh (11:43):

Like. It's interesting. There's a really healthy or unhealthy tension there. I mean I have three teenagers and my daughter came to me last night and she's like, I really a couple of new clothing items for school. She's like, I dunno what to do because my friends say I shouldn't shop on Amazon and tmu because the clothes are fast fashion and that's bad for the environment and for humans and all these things. She's like, but I can't afford to buy the stuff at some of the larger retailers. And I said, well, these are tough choices we have to make. How much do you want that thing? And also keeping in mind, we can't always afford to buy the highest quality things that we need, so you're going to have to make some trade-offs and this is a hard thing about being a consumer, but just that that is stressing out my 14-year-old, these are the things they're grappling with. I don't remember as a kid we'd go to the mall and go to the gap and whatever it was

(12:51):

We just bought what was available and now consumers have so many choices and especially young consumers, I think it can be kind of overwhelming, but this idea of delight me I think can happen in a lot of different ways. And some other examples of, I love your story, Lauren, about Monos Yeti is another really great example. If you have shoppers that are willing to wear your branded merchandise, like hats and t-shirts that are your fans of your brand, at least in Seattle, people walk around with Yeti hats. Yeti is the high quality coolers and drinkware if you're not familiar with the brand, and they're known for having really premium materials and engineering for harsh environments. So kind of a standout product design. A lot of examples here, I think Nordstrom's a retailer that stands out to me. I was telling Lord in our prep call about an experience that we had where I went shopping with my mom and my daughter and we shopped downtown and we had gone to Old Navy and bought a bunch of clothes for the kids and we had all these huge bags and then we went to Nordstrom and they held the bags for us from another retailer and then my mom was tired and so they went and brought us a wheelchair for her.

Peter Crosby (14:05):

Oh my gosh. Wow.

Andrea Leigh (14:06):

Yeah, I mean, Nordstrom's amazing. They're a Seattle based retailer and have been in our community for a long time, but their concierge will do anything. They will arrange a Uber home for you or they will figure out what you should do that night if you're visiting from out of town. I mean their concierge are known for being really amazing. So another great example of a brand in the form of a retailer that focuses on those brilliant basics and customer service is one of their brilliant basics.

Peter Crosby (14:40):

I wonder what their KPI is for that. If you think of how do you do that at scale, how do you justify a concierge and can you prove that it's having that? I think we're so in an environment right now where resources and costs are becoming precious and where do you spend your money and your time? It's just money, no longer free, et cetera, et cetera. I just think that that investment, I know it's been a part of their brand for a very long time, but I just wonder as budgets become more tight, how they're starting to hold accountability to these areas of the business. But advocacy does pay off and we see it.

Andrea Leigh (15:27):

Absolutely. I mean, I do know, I'm sure that they look at repeat customers and you have the store credit card and they're looking at their loyal shoppers and they have a loyalty program, but it's cultural, cultural. It's sort of in their DNA. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who works there that isn't really kind of customer service focused because sort of like Amazon, I guess in the idea of that customer centricity, although it looks different for Amazon, they fix all the problems. That's why they're the most trusted brand or one of the most trusted brands. I don't know if they made that list this year, but they fix all of the problems. But that idea of customer centricity just looks different for them. It's about making sure that they've got competitive pricing and all the assortment and can deliver with a lot of convenience.

Peter Crosby (16:22):

So the next area of focus is help me build my brand. How should brands be thinking about that?

Andrea Leigh (16:30):

Yeah, and before we leave the delight me, I would say the takeaways for the brands on the call would be really thinking about those brilliant basics plus. So what's your value proposition? What's your differentiator? Every brand or retailer has something that it makes them stand out with their shoppers. And so what are you doing to prove it everywhere? And I think those are the inputs that we can focus on as brands in order to drive really shoppers that really want to advocate for us in delighting them. So help me build my brand. Okay, this is interesting. There was a quote from grocery shop, Raquel Naski from General Mills said, we are not the brand, the consumer is the brand. We are no longer the brand. And she described how consumers are building these personas for themselves. They're either doing it online or they're doing it in their head.

(17:24):

I mean there's been this whole trend recently of these three words, I don't know if you guys have heard of this, but the three words that define your personal sense of style and one's supposed to be like your every day and the others like aspirational. And I can't remember how it works, but it's been this trend making the waves on TikTok, but consumers are building their personal brand and I think for the youngest generation, this is all the way down to their shoelaces. This is where they're buying all the products, this is what they're buying. The goal for the brand is to be something that the shopper wants to be a part of. It isn't just about sustainability, although that could be a core value if you're shopper base is really focused on sustainability, that's an area where you need to align with their personal values, but it could be a number of different things. So this is interesting, kind of goes back to something we were talking about in the beginning. One in five consumers consider themselves to be content creators or influencers. One invite that is 20% of consumers and it goes up to 45% for Gen Zs and millennials. And this was from a HubSpot report this year, and I didn't believe this and so I asked my kids, they did not think that they were influencers. I asked, do you guys think you're influencers? They were like, no, mom, I'm not influencers.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (18:42):

Why are you asking me?

Andrea Leigh (18:44):

But I guess if I'd expanded it to be content creators, I mean, yeah, they're creating content all the time and putting it online, and so it's all about how do you align with the personal values of your shoppers as opposed to you having as a brand a set of personal values and asking the shopper to align to you. I think it has flipped In more recent years, 82% of shoppers want a consumer brand's value to align with their own. They will obviously vote with their wallet if they don't feel a match. Three quarters of shoppers reported parting ways with a brand over conflict in values. This is from a Google Cloud report.

(19:22):

89% of shoppers stay loyal to brands that share their values and 29% of consumers say they choose products that fit with my personality. So I think this just really showcases the importance of individuality in the decision making process. I have another teenager story where my daughter wants to go as one of my daughters wants to go to Halloween as I think it's Alice in Wonderland. And so I went on Amazon and I found a maiden China costume for her and I sent it to her and she's like, no, that's not how I want my costume to come together. She wanted to go thrift and source each of the pieces individually. She found a dress that was the right dress but the wrong color. She's going to dye it and it's because her personal brand is about the creation process of this. I mean, I think always from, not necessarily even from a sustainability standpoint, just that she wants to be the creator of the costume. And so aligning with that personal value I think is interesting. Yeah, one in five consumers consider themselves to be content creators or influencers.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (20:34):

I feel like my dog is the content creator in our family because you have an Instagram and we get some stuff from that, but I do not consider myself an influencer.

Peter Crosby (20:43):

Well, you are in your professional life, just maybe not in

Lauren Livak Gilbert (20:46):

Your personal, you absolutely are

Peter Crosby (20:47):

Fair,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (20:47):

Fair not on social media. Well, I guess if you count, fair, fair, but I think this goes a lot to relevancy too, not personalization, relevancy, which I really like that pivot. It's like you have to understand who your consumers are and why they're shopping for your products, and if you can match those and continue to match those, you will have loyal consumers and you can use them to create new innovation and new ideas. I think that's also kind of the flywheel in this. Would you agree?

Andrea Leigh (21:22):

Absolutely. What do you think, Peter?

Peter Crosby (21:24):

Well, I was just thinking isn't that part of the opportunity of, sorry, but it has to be used in every podcast of AI and the ability to be able to find all the niches you can be relevant to and targeting them because it's been a pretty broad brush what relevancy is, but I think we're entering an era where to sort of squeeze out maybe all of the revenue or all of the connection or whatever it might be, you're going to need to discover those slices and then prove your relevancy there and therein lies opportunity. That's what I'm

Andrea Leigh (22:10):

Thinking about. I wholeheartedly agree, Peter. I think that's the big takeaway for brands, and then we can come back to some examples of this, but we used to use, this is where we need AI to help us with some of the big data, and it's not enough to know the demographics of our shoppers anymore. We actually have to understand what their values are. And you have to ask and you have to listen and you have to align to them. You need to deeply know them. And so thinking about how can you learn about your shoppers values as opposed to just knowing about geographic regions and demographics and age and shopping behaviors, you need to really figure out how can you socially listen? How can you learn about their values? I think AI offers us the opportunity to do that. There have been so many tools that have come online recently to allow brands to socially listen in smarter ways. And there's a lot of venues that we see brands doing that. If you look at Reddit or Discord or even just finding ways to scale social listening across social media. And then after you've done that, how do you make your values as a brand really clear and consistent in all of your messaging and your go-to-market so that you can line up with some of those shopper values?

Peter Crosby (23:31):

I love that. That's a future podcast episode on how to scale your social listening through ai because I am not intensely familiar with any of those offerings, and that sounds super interesting.

Andrea Leigh (23:44):

That's part

Lauren Livak Gilbert (23:45):

Two and three of all the topics we need

Andrea Leigh (23:46):

To touch on. I know we're just making a list. Okay, so a couple of examples of some brands that I think have done a really nice job of aligning with their shoppers' personal values, red Bull, great example. They're all about excitement. So they have this history of advertising that is even maybe more legendary than their actual product. I mean, if look at brand awareness, red gives wings, red Bull gives you wings, and their social is all about people performing stunts and just these big exciting feats and it works. The brand awareness for Red Bull is insane. Almost a hundred percent of consumers have heard of the brand across all demographic generations. And then if you look at from a loyalty perspective, they're approaching 50% of the population that believes they are loyal in some way to Red Bull. So that doesn't necessarily mean you drink it every day, but it's a brand you keep coming back to.

(24:55):

So I like that one. Lauren and I also talked about Liquid Death as a great example of a brand. If folks aren't familiar with them, they're sort of like Designer Water, I guess you could say. It's canned designer water. The cans are really cool. I wouldn't say they look like a beer can, but you would feel really comfortable and maybe even cool standing around drinking a can of liquid death if you weren't in a place where you wanted to be drinking alcohol around people who are hundred percent. It's a super fun brand. They've done some really interesting and cool marketing and have a pretty strong cult following,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (25:36):

And we've had them on the podcast, so definitely listen to that one. But yeah, I love, that's a great example. They really kind of hone in on their genre in all of their content. So key takeaways for this one then Andrea. For brands,

Andrea Leigh (25:50):

You have to ask and listen. You have to ask your shopper what their values are and you have to listen. And I think it's very difficult for large brands to do that in a way that isn't supported by AI or technology in some way. But there are still ways you can do focus groups and you can start up, go look on social and see what's happening, but really to help you process some of that information, I think you need some support. But yeah, really finding ways to listen and then how do you make your values really clear and consistent?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (26:27):

I love that. Then last but not least, include me. So how are we thinking about that? I was excited about this one.

Andrea Leigh (26:35):

Yeah, so this is about making consumers feel like they're part of a larger like-minded group. So building a community social listening, but it's not just listening. This is also about communicating back. It's sort of a two-way communication. And this is where I think brands and particularly large CPG really need to think about the post-purchase cycle. I don't think we spend a lot of time thinking about that in consumables, like, well, they're just going to come back and purchase again. But if you look at more durable goods, a lot of brands have really focused on this post-purchase cycle. So what happens after the shopper makes a purchase and how do we keep them a part of the family? So a few data points, 52% of consumers choose brands. They feel value them as a consumer. So they're listened to. There's some form of a two-way communication. 63% of consumers believe companies need to get better at listening to feedback. So that's more than half of consumers. 55% of consumers said that if a brand or a business owner responds to their review, they would feel positive about a business. So this kind of goes back to what we talked about before. If you fix something, it's even better than if the customer never had a problem to begin with.

(27:50):

So some interesting examples of brands that I think have done a nice job of continuing to engage the consumer and turn them into advocates, GoPro. So they take all of the user, not all, but they take a lot of the user generated content that consumers post and tag them in from the use of their cameras, and they repost it on their social. So it kind of makes the consumer feel like they're a part of the marketing, which I know a lot of brands do that, and I think it's a pretty tried and true tactic to make consumers feel like they're communicating with you and their values are being heard and it's too bad. We're on a podcast. I have a really cute puppy video.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:34):

I'll put it in the show

Andrea Leigh (28:35):

Notes. I know, I think that or just

Peter Crosby (28:37):

At least send it to us.

Andrea Leigh (28:39):

I'll see. I'll send it to you. Any puppy video anytime. It's like who says you can't get a good picture of a puppy? They don't hold still. And then there's this, someone got a GoPro and got a really great video of this adorable puppy running. So that's a great one. Lego with the Rebuild the World campaign, again, kind of taking that user-generated content and recirculating it out into the community. Garmin, same kind of thing.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (29:07):

Andrea, I have another really good one that I experienced this weekend as an example.

Andrea Leigh (29:13):

Ooh, I'm excited. Okay, give me another one.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (29:15):

This podcast always comes at the perfect time. All of this stuff just happened to me, so ever eve. So I was looking to do a style box because I just didn't have time every season to go and pick out a new outfit or something like that, and I just didn't really want to do it. So I went on Reddit. To your point, it ties a lot of these pieces together and I was like, what's the best style box? And they said, transcend is what

Andrea Leigh (29:39):

It's called. Transcend, yeah.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (29:41):

So I ordered the Transcend Box and it's through the store ever Eve, and I got my clothes and you kind of fill out the survey to say what your style is, and then they send you the clothes, and then they actually have physical locations, and there's one right in Dedham, which is where I'm close to. And I go into the store and they have personal stylists who work at the store. They do not work off commission. And you walk in and you explain what you liked and what you didn't like about your box, and they actually dress you. And I had the best experience shopping that I've ever had in my entire life. And then they took a picture and they're like, do you want to share this or take a picture of your outfit at your event and share it with us? And then they post it on their store site and then you can go back and have a conversation with your stylist. And it was just from end to end an absolutely incredible experience. And I have told 15 people about this in terms of advocacy because I felt seen, I felt good. It was a great experience. And the product, the clothing is absolutely incredible. So it ties all of these things together. But I wanted to share that example. If anyone,

Andrea Leigh (30:49):

They're a really great example, Lauren. I agree. I shopped there too. And if you don't follow them on Instagram, they're a good follow because they actually take photos and videos of shoppers in the store with their permission. And so you get to really see the clothes, I think, on real people, and they do style them and they make them look great, and yes, and they

Lauren Livak Gilbert (31:11):

Explain it. They explain why they did what they did, which also helps you make more informed choices when you're purchasing again in the future.

Andrea Leigh (31:18):

Absolutely. That's a great example. I think you gave another one last time about your aura ring,

(31:24):

Which is yes, they have love the fitness and sleep tracker and they've got a community. And then you can even look at some of the consumables brands like Nick's cosmetics, they're prominently featuring UGC in their marketing. They encourage shoppers to post makeup creations on social media, and then they'll sort of share those. It's not all about repurposing UGC, I think a lot of these examples are about that, but it's about how do you really actively engage with the shoppers after they have made the purchase and make them feel really included. There are some other examples of brands like Wise and Mad Rabbit we talked about in the past where they used online discussion boards and Reddit, et cetera, to get Intel that will inform products and services. So they post a question out to the group, they're like, why is, there'll be like, what new tech do you want to see included in our next set of Bluetooth headphones?

(32:26):

Or what are your biggest pain points with the ones you have now? And so they're using that audience to inform purchase decisions and what better way to create a loyal shopper. All those followers on those forums are now going to go buy the next set of headphones they had input into what features were included. So I think the takeaways for brands are find ways to actively engage with your shopper, and it's a two-way communication, find ways to incorporate their feedback. And this could be through some of these interactive campaigns, UGC being just really responsive in social.

Peter Crosby (33:04):

That's fine. I've been thinking a lot about the arc of retail, the exposure to products and sort of the shape of the journey and kind of the decades trends that I've sort of been thinking about is that originally it was location, location, location. Then it really became phone, phone, phone. That's what you need to figure out. That was where the battleground was. And now I think it's me that we are now in this era where you really do need to sell directly to a consumer. And obviously that happens through cohorts and niches and all that other stuff, but that's where there's no reliable place to find them anymore. You have to just find them where they are. And I'm obviously clearly not felt it thought it through completely, but there's something about that sort of change in scope and scale going from, oh, it's near where I live to. It's on a screen in front of me to it's what I want. You should know what I want and you should get it. To me.

Andrea Leigh (34:23):

I think that's so poignant. Peter and I just read a New York Times article yesterday, I'll send it to you where this, they said, want to understand the US economy watch Shark Tank. And this reporter had gone back and watched every season of Shark Tank all together, and then they summarized each, I know, right? And they summarized each season one, season two, and kind of where the trends were and what the brands were focused on and what they cared about. So in the beginning, it was more around 2009, it was brands that had stories about struggling and overcoming adversity. It was a lot about small business owners. Then it moves a little bit and as the economy improved, and it's just interesting, they break it out by every two years, they kind of summarize the different trends. But I think you're so right. I mean, the shape of the journey has changed a lot. And I like what you said about it originally being about location, then phone, and now it's about me. It's all about me.

Peter Crosby (35:28):

It's all about me, all about me. And it's so funny listening to you too. Not funny, but I'm such a horrible shopper. I don't have any of these examples because I just don't buy stuff. And so I'm horrible. I shouldn't be hosting this podcast. No, no, no.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (35:50):

We'll buy for you, Peter.

Peter Crosby (35:51):

Don't worry. Well, no, but it does make me think, Lauren, listening to your experience. When I purchase clothing so often, I just end up with one brand. I know they'll fit. And so having an experience like that, but I hate being, I would just break out in a sweat in an environment like that where someone's trying to dress me. So I don't know what the solution for me is, but a

Lauren Livak Gilbert (36:20):

Box, a style box that you get at home and you can try it on and feel. Yeah,

Peter Crosby (36:23):

Then you have to return it. I know. See, you

Andrea Leigh (36:26):

Nail it back. I think that I feel the opposite. I feel like because so much of I spent, my whole career is about thinking about how people shop. I spend way too much time in stores and doing research. And I mean, I have a new client that's a cosmetics brand, and so of course immediately I went to TikTok and bought some of their product just so I could have the experience and be able to talk about it. Yeah, I feel like my pocketbook would appreciate if I

Peter Crosby (37:01):

Maybe

Andrea Leigh (37:01):

Had a different career.

Peter Crosby (37:05):

I spend it all on travel. So it's a different

Lauren Livak Gilbert (37:08):

Experiences.

Peter Crosby (37:08):

Yes, experiences. Thank

Lauren Livak Gilbert (37:10):

You. We'll have an experience podcast where you can talk about all your trips.

Peter Crosby (37:12):

Oh, that sounds

Lauren Livak Gilbert (37:13):

Great. There we go.

Peter Crosby (37:14):

That sounds great. There we go. So Andrea, did we get the takeaways? I wanted to make sure I hadn't.

Andrea Leigh (37:20):

Yes, your takeaway. So finding ways to actively engage with shoppers, incorporating their feedback, and considering what can you do in terms of interactive campaigns, user generated, content, responsive social community.

Peter Crosby (37:33):

That is fantastic. I think particularly, and we've talked about this really all year, the need to get more money out of the people as a brand, because customer acquisition costs are going up so much, and that well is not as simple as it used to be. And the themes that you've talked about this year, authenticity, trust, and loyalty and advocacy are really the brand investments that must be made to build a sustainable business and to be able to find your areas of growth. So I think I just want to thank you, Andrea, for being here every quarter and telling such a compelling story of what it takes to be a brilliant brand really in this. And so I can't wait to do it again next year in your tour of personalization, but we're really grateful for all the knowledge that you bring to us. Thank you.

Andrea Leigh (38:34):

Thanks for having me. And this quarter's report's going to be really exciting because actually pulling the whole year together in one report, so we'll have all of the themes that we just discussed from previous quarters, authenticity, trust, loyalty, and now advocacy kind of wrapped together into an annual format. So it'll be really easy for folks to kind of track along with all of the podcast episodes.

Peter Crosby (38:57):

Well, we'll talk about that in Q1.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (38:59):

Yes, and you can find the report in the partner section of the DSI page. So if you go to digital shelf institute.org, click on resources, then partners, you'll be able to find the report. Thank you, Andrea.

Andrea Leigh (39:11):

Thanks for having me. It was so fun talking to you guys again.

Peter Crosby (39:14):

Thanks again to Andrea for all the wisdom. Their reports are also available in the partner content section under the resources tab on our website, digitalshelfinstitute.org. Become a member while you're there, why don't you, it's free and great. Thanks for being part of our community.